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Thread: Massad Ayoob: Three reasons why you need to carry extra ammo and magazines

  1. #11
    Member Shotgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totem Polar View Post
    turning discretionary income into noise,
    Ouch, that phrase stings with truth. I've never seen our love of shooting described in such a way.
    "Rich," the Old Man said dreamily, "is a little whiskey to drink and some food to eat and a roof over your head and a fish pole and a boat and a gun and a dollar for a box of shells." Robert Ruark

  2. #12
    I started carrying a spare mag a year ago-sometimes. In the last 3-4 months it has become my norm. Chances are low I will need it, just like chances are low I will need the gun. But I see it as a way to tilt the odds in my favor. We always see the recommendation to 'get off the X'. One way to help do that going from cover to cover is send 4-5-6 rounds toward the bad guy as you move. The gun in my hip holster is a pain in the butt, but the mag in my left pocket is no problem.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by feudist View Post
    I've been reading and listening to this man's clear thinking since the early 80s.

    A National treasure.
    Mas and I are the same age. He started writing in gun magazines when he was a kid, and I was reading him when I was a kid. I began my study of firearms at age 6. Later, Mas' narratives impressed me. Unlike many noted authors, he was never a flash in the pan. Instead he continued to study and grow and maintain his edge.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by CraigS View Post
    I started carrying a spare mag a year ago-sometimes. In the last 3-4 months it has become my norm. Chances are low I will need it, just like chances are low I will need the gun. But I see it as a way to tilt the odds in my favor. We always see the recommendation to 'get off the X'. One way to help do that going from cover to cover is send 4-5-6 rounds toward the bad guy as you move. The gun in my hip holster is a pain in the butt, but the mag in my left pocket is no problem.
    Those 4-5-6 rounds are probably going to be it then the gunfight is over. Either bad guy is hit, or bad guy ran off. Moving to cover doesn't really happen, although theoretically it's a good idea

  5. #15
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    More than one bad guy. More ammo, please. Who says it will always be one bad guy or more that you will hit immediately.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Utm View Post
    I get his point, but it just doesn't mimic what we see in real gunfights
    Quote Originally Posted by Utm View Post
    If I was regularly seeing citizen involved self defense shootings where reloads were required, I would carry a spare. But I can't justify it for something that's low percentage within an already low percentage likelihood. Typically what you have in the gun is the max you'll use. I feel confident with 16 rounds
    You’re right that needing a spare magazine is not something seen in the typical shooting. I’ve seen it in video of a couple of atypical gunfights though, including one posted here a few months back which showed a magazine repeatedly falling out of an officer’s gun. First, as soon as he exited his cruiser, forcing him to reload with a new mag, and again several shots into the exchange, forcing him to load his final mag. People getting poor grips on their guns at the start of a gunfight is something I wouldn’t consider atypical. If that poor grip drops your mag accidentally and you don’t have a spare, you’re in trouble. I’ve also found spare mags to be much easier to carry and conceal that the gun itself. You can just throw one in your pocket if you don’t want to bother with a magazine pouch. I’ve always been of the opinion that if you’re going to bother carrying a gun, there’s no harm or extra hassle in carrying a spare mag. Sure, you probably won’t need it, but you also probably won’t need the gun to begin with. If it just so happens you do end up needing it, it’s there.
    My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Utm View Post
    Those 4-5-6 rounds are probably going to be it then the gunfight is over. Either bad guy is hit, or bad guy ran off. Moving to cover doesn't really happen, although theoretically it's a good idea
    Your argument is invalid from my perspective, that's like saying gas tanks should only be filled 1/4 of the way in your car at a given time because it's so rare that people drive further than that in one trip. Just like a car, if you need to go further and didn't bring enough to cover you it's a paperweight.

    Now, had you said I just can't carry the extra weight then that would be a valid argument for not doing so but trying to justify it by the 'norms' you have seen on tape is not sound logic.

  8. #18
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    The average isn't what always happens. Any statistics course indicates a distribution of events and you should plan for a reasonable cut off in the tail of the incident intensity distribution. It isn't always the single mugger. I bored with making this analysis over and over and over again.

    On the other hand, since the average gun fight is 3 rounds, I'm supporting the 5 is enough bill. No handgun should carry more than 5 rounds. Higher capacity guns are only for nuts. Write Joe Biden and give as evidence the endless posts on gun forums denouncing anything higher!!

    Think that is unlikely, Cuomo wanted a 5 round mag, told they didn't exist - he went to seven but that overturned.

    Tom Givens speaks of time in the fight. Good concept for the I don't need more ammo folks.

  9. #19
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    The spare mag is not for me. It is to share with local police officers, who unintentionally release their loaded mags, during gun fights. (As seen in body-worn-camera videos.)

    Support your local police.

    I am not completely joking. My thumbs are too short to enable my firing-hand thumb to reach the mag release buttons, on the pistols that I normally use, but any mag, that can be dumped if something bumps or nudges a button, should be backed-up by a spare mag. My opinion.

    Plus, if I have been involved in a defensive incident, I would like to be able to wait for the authorities to arrive, with a fully-reloaded weapon, because my opponents’ cavalry may well arrive, before “my” cavalry arrives. Actually, there are some parts of this metro area, where an immediate exfil is probably the wiser option, but, yes, I’d rather exfil, with a fully-loaded weapon.

    I have used a “I, me, and my” words, quite a bit, in this post, because my way is “a” way, not “the” way. Others are free to choose their own salvation.
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

    Don’t tread on volcanos!

  10. #20
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    Being left handed, I have learned to release mags with my trigger finger on my semis. It works very well for many years. My thumbs are also too short to press a mag release without changing grip (assuming I had ambi releases).

    This actually amazed a guy at a match who wanted me to demonstrate that. No needs more than three rounds anyway - so carry a 4 barrel Sharps for concealment or a 4 barrel Lancaster for more stopping power and open carry.

    If I recall, the officer Kenneth Hammond at Trolley Mall commented on only having one mag with 7 rounds (might need a correction on that but it wasn't a higher cap gun - 1911, I think). He missed and wished he had more ammo.

    At the Kenya Mall incident some civilians intervened when local law froze and they notice they had limited ammo - one mag for an intense situation.

    So, yep - one mugger, 3 rounds. That's the average.

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