Great article. "In my experience, the benefit of magnification comes into play on targets that are outside the naked eye range of target identification. " Bottom line is, I can hold 6 inches at 200 yards with my Aimpoint. The Aimpoint is fast, familiar and keeps my rifle light. I am going to press with what I already have, and upgrade to the Nightforce if this proves inadequate once down range. Thanks for working through this problem with me.Originally Posted by JHC
Rob
I have run T1 in offset mount coupled with a variable "set and forgot", so effectively same functional setup. Honestly, I thought it created more problems than it gave solutions. YMMV.
In all of the carbine classes I have attended that focus on the entire effective range of the 5.56 carbine, shooters who came equipped with the ACOG/off-set or piggy-backed MRD combo struggled inside of 50yds with their set-up. Most of them to the point that they ditched their current set-up for either a variable power scope or a red dot.
Im a huge proponent of the low powered variable, but Kyle Defoor's latest entry on too much magnification is on-point.
I cant comment on how the 1-4x Trijicon TR24G Accupoint would handle to OP's mission requirements, but mine has been banged around in the trunk of my squad car over the past two years, been thru multiple carbine courses, competitions, and frequent training days without a hiccup. It may not be the latest & greatest variable out there, but it is a solid optic that I will have a hard time finding something "better" to replace it with. The eye relief of the TR24G and the eye box are so forgiving that it can be run like a red dot on 1x without issue for me.
How did the guys with red dots do at the end of the 5.56 carbine performance envelope, say 400-500 yards?
Very few fighting carbine courses go beyond 300yds with the 16" carbine AR platform. Most reputable guys out there teaching carbine consider the 5.56 AR a 300yd max weapon system from what I have seen. While getting combat accurate hits with a 16" carbine out past 400yds is do-able with or with magnification, it ain't the best tool for that job.
Last edited by NickDrak; 09-10-2012 at 12:33 AM.
It's entirely possible to get hits at 500 once you get your hold down and can apply wind hold-off. However, practically, it's pretty hard to identify targets at distances past 300 unless they are in distinct contrast with their background.
Magnification is a huge capability multiplier for target identification and discrimination, especially for the kind of targets that don't want to get shot.
As said before, the practical performance envelope of 5.56, and specifically those intended to perform well in the most critical areas, is from 0 to 300, and really that upper limit is usually closer to 200 meters. That isn't to say that one cannot reach out to double that distance, just that it works a lot better in the given envelope.
I have quite a bit of experience on different optics that are intended for my application, and I greatly prefer a low powered variable or 1x optic over anything at a fixed 3.5 or greater magnification.
Change the application, and my preferences change.
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Knight's Armament Company
Well, you said entire effective range, and past 300m is certainly within the effective range of a 16" 5.56 carbine (whether or not it's the best tool for the job is not the point). Take out the longer half of the range and its no wonder one sight performs better than the other.
400-500yds is beyond the effective ballistic range of the 5.56 carbine. As F2S stated, you can hit targets beyond 300 all day long with a 5.56 carbine if you do your job, but the round is not going to perform to it's potential beyond 250-300yds max.
Thanks for clarifying for me. When you said effective range, I was thinking effective range as in the official book definition. I didn't think you were referring to terminal ballistics because as I understood it even the best projectiles at M4 velocities only perform to ~175yds.......well short of 300yds. I guess what bullets perform out to 300 is a different discussion though.
Care to elaborate?
As for effective range = 300m?
I guess if your definition of effective range is doesn't include first round hits at known 400-600m with the NSN then it would be in effective but I don't want to be hit effectively or in effectively at that range.
Would I prefer a .308 for the job? Sure, but the OP is talking about a jack of all trades gun concerning his optic setup.
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