Recoil spring rate

[CraigS]

Recoil spring. This is the only spring I have never messed with in our 92s. My wife has slightly reduced grip strength in her left hand and we realized that could be a problem as we were practicing for her first idpa match. It hasn't been a problem until now because at the match, each time you are done shooting they require you to drop the mag and show them an empty chamber. She can rack the slide in normal use no problem. But holding it open at an angle that the SO can see the chamber is tough. So before the match I wacked 2 coils off of her recoil spring, we shot a couple of mags through it and all was well. At the match it helped her for sure. But I don't know how to judge recoil spring performance. I ordered a couple each of their 11.5 and 12.5# springs from LTT. I think I can go fairly weak because the Brig slide absorbs recoil, I have a shock buff in the gun so it won't batter the frame, and we usually shoot Blaser brass which I believe is known to be on the weak side. So how do I decide which to run in her gun?

[jbrimlow]

Get slow motion video from the side, check how the gun returns. (If you shoot fast or pay enough attention, you can see it there too, but slow mo from the side is easiest).

You want the gun to return to level after each shot with a good grip. The sights should be right back where you had them, the bullet impact should be damn close to the first one. If the slide returns and the muzzle is high, you want more spring weight. If the slide returns with muzzle dip, you want less spring weight.

Note that your grip may end up correcting the error, so watch carefully.

[P30]

It hasn't been a problem until now because at the match, each time you are done shooting they require you to drop the mag and show them an empty chamber. She can rack the slide in normal use no problem. But holding it open at an angle that the SO can see the chamber is tough.

Lena Miculek explains how to rack and lock the slide back. IMO very good technique:

[Clusterfrack]

I have a slightly different way of looking at recoil spring weight. Unless the gun is compensated, it will not return by itself. The shooter’s muscles return the gun.

A heavier recoil spring can reduce muzzle flip and make it easier to return. But, it can also cause a dip as the slide slams forward.

A lighter recoil spring does the opposite.

I prefer springs that are heavier because I don’t have a problem with muzzle dip. But not super heavy. Eg. 12# on a Shadow2.

[CraigS]

P30, unfortunately Lena's technique is what my wife used to do. It worked well enough that she didn't really have much trouble over the last 15 years or so. Then 5-6 weeks ago we were practicing, she racked the slide and as she released it the meat of her palm out at the edge behind her little finger got caught between the edge of the barrel at the top of the chamber and the forward edge of the slide. It actually removed a chunk of skin and bled like a pig. Not to say she can't adjust her hand position better, it had worked for 15 years, but I had her try to pull the slide back w/ her hand to the rear of it like most of us do. She has also been using a spring hand exerciser to increase her strength. I will have her try the Lena technique of setting the slide lock. I don't think she has ever done that. That could get her back to that slide pull technique and locking it back would eliminate the chance of more bleeding.

[P30]

@CraigS
I think it's important that she knows, what exactly she did wrong. And even more important: How to do it right. I suppose in her case it means:

When the slide is fully racked back, just relax the muscles of your left fingers. Keep both hands where they are.

Do it close to the body as Lena explained. Focus on what you're doing.

But probably you two have already figured that out. Why I write it: I'm a paraglider/paramotor pilot. Deadly accidents happen in paragliding. But most of the time, if the accident is analysed, it becomes clear how causes and effects worked. And then you know how to not get hurt. I even find it fascinating to do dangerous stuff and stay safe. "Dangerous things are cool" (by Nutnfancy). But respect and understand them. Fear often comes from the unknown. If it's known, fear often goes away.

And I also think, it's very important for safety to have "Cooper rules" and always apply them. I mean a small set of important rules that avoid the big mistakes (for your domain, e.g. firearm handling, motorbiking, paragliding, ...).

[P30]

Dunning-Kruger effect

A positive way to look at mistakes we made and the pain they gave us: They foster our wisdom (if analysed, understood and learned from).

I know, I've been on Mt. Stupid.

[P30]

Another aspect: How strong can she grip the pistol? If she is limp-wristing, then maybe it's a good overall solution to reduce the recoil spring force a bit.

More precisely: If the slide does not fully move to the back in recoil and does not activate the slide catch with the last shot, I would consider putting a slightly weaker spring in.

On the other hand, maybe then she should train in order to increase her grip strength.

[CraigS]

It looks like we will get this worked out. After watching Lena's video, wife and I played w/ a 92 some. As I suspected she had never used the slide lock. Until a year ago all her shooting has been at ranges where she stands in a lane and shoots stationary paper. We usually just loaded 10 rnds because that was a convenient # to shoot and then relax. I have been doing local idpa for maybe 6 years so a LOT more variety. And about 6 months ago, after she retired, I started her on simple idpa-light shooting. Not working allows us to go to Izaak Walton during the week and we are often the only ones there so we can shoot a lot more variety of targets AND we can move. I suspect that using the slide lock to show empty and then letting the slide go forward by gripping it from the rear is going to work out for her. I know she wouldn't agree but the bleeding episode will have a benefit. I was simply not aware that she was so close to not having the strength needed to rack the slide so I wasn't paying any attention at all to how she was doing it. Now I know to monitor it so that will be a big plus. It is also going to be interesting trying clusterfrack's slow mo video to look at spring rate. Thanks a bunch guys.

[Clusterfrack]

On the other hand, maybe then she should train in order to increase her grip strength.

Not a bad idea. However, grip strength is the biggest male-female strength difference. Females have significantly less grip force even comparing individuals of the same body size.

“Man strength” is a thing.