Active Shooter Uvalde TX Elementary School

[AMC]

They have a lot of hardware. Hardware doesn't always = capability. The USBP/ICE-HSI/Zavala county team had the same hardware (except for a rifle rate shield) but a higher level of capability.

Attachment 90406

Absofuckinglutely. I have repeatedly told my Command level folks that you will never get Major League performance out of Junior Varsity players with T Ball training. But thats their, and the publics', expectation. The fact that such expectations do not match reality does not at all change the magical wish fulfillment ideation of LE command folks, the uninformed public, and other children.

This incident appears to be a failure on multiple levels. But I'm tired of screaming myself hoarse to people who don't listen. The country is getting the LE that they asked for. The fact that it doesn't work? Huh....imagine that.

If you want a highly trained, professional police department, you have to hire and select the right people, and pay to properly train them. I don't see the will to do this anywhere in our society right now.

[HCM]

It’s still staggering information such as this we’re learning about now.

I mean… we’re at almost a month in and are just now getting information that they had folks in the halls.

I’m at the point I’m not going to comment too much more on the activity. But it’s just mind blowing what we’re finding out this long after.

First he shot a security guard. Then “Well no he didn’t”. Then they had a Bor-Tac guy go in, but maybe not. Then it took forever to find the keys, but then they didn’t use them (or need them it now seems?). I mean. Holy $&@# no wonder kids are molested for years in schools and nobody knows about it. This one had had the eyes of the entire country on it for a month, up to and including the POTUS, and folks pushing to pass legislation as hard as they can and we’re finding out today things like there were guys there with AR’s and shields?

My goodness.

We just need the data. Those kids parents deserve to know. How they handle it - that’s their prerogative.

ETA: I’m not criticizing the LE or asserting what I’d have to done in that situation. I’m talking about from the comfort of our no danger, combing through footage, and just someone doing an actual report of what transpired and having the information. But at some point people need to be held liable for lack of cooperation with an investigation - I’d think.

“Ballistic shields” are not created equal..

Keep in mind that just like there is a difference between soft body armor and rifle rated plates they were pistol rated shields and rifle rated shields.

In 25 years of law-enforcement including a fair amount of time in the firearms and tactics end of things I’ve not seen rifle rated shields in use/inventory of anyone but dedicated tactical / SWAT/SRT teams.

As detailed in my post above, for tactics related reasons rifle rated shields see limited use in the U.S. But in this instance it was necessary due to other options being off the table and the shooter dumped about half a mag on the shield when entry was finally made.

A key was used when entry was finally made based on the info provided to the entry team at the time. That is firmly established. What is currently being investigated, and has not yet been confirmed, is whether the key was actually necessary. The media is presenting this as an established fact - which it is not at this point.

[GJM]

WSJ just now:

AUSTIN, Texas—Officers at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, last month had nothing barring them from entering a dual classroom where a shooter was actively gunning down students and teachers, the chief of the Texas Department of Public Safety said Tuesday.

The classroom door wasn’t locked, DPS Director Steven McCraw said during a hearing before a Texas Senate committee hearing Tuesday. Police officers armed with rifles and protected by body armor were on the scene within three minutes. Even had the door been secured, officers had tools to break it open. Yet they waited an hour and 14 minutes to go into the classroom, despite hearing ongoing gunshots, knowing children had been shot inside and knowing that at least one teacher shot was still alive.

[HCM]

I've stepped away from following this too closely, but it's hard to see what could be more embarrassing than the things that have already been released. The fact that the local PD is acting like there is more stuff has led to a lot of online speculation about hitting wrong targets and such.

I think it's pretty obvious that everything is going to leak about an incident like this. Better to present the bad stuff in your light instead of making it look like a coverup before having it all come out anyways.

Everything will come out. Anyone who thinks they can "cover up" details of an event of this magnitude is deluding themselves.

However, given all the prior issues with bad info, leaking unconfirmed lines of inquiry just muddies the water and impedes the investigation.

Hence why I question the motive of the leaker(s).

[JHC]

WSJ just now:

AUSTIN, Texas—Officers at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, last month had nothing barring them from entering a dual classroom where a shooter was actively gunning down students and teachers, the chief of the Texas Department of Public Safety said Tuesday.

The classroom door wasn’t locked, DPS Director Steven McCraw said during a hearing before a Texas Senate committee hearing Tuesday. Police officers armed with rifles and protected by body armor were on the scene within three minutes. Even had the door been secured, officers had tools to break it open. Yet they waited an hour and 14 minutes to go into the classroom, despite hearing ongoing gunshots, knowing children had been shot inside and knowing that at least one teacher shot was still alive.

That's a helluva circle for Arrendondo to square now.

[HCM]

Absofuckinglutely. I have repeatedly told my Command level folks that you will never get Major League performance out of Junior Varsity players with T Ball training. But thats their, and the publics', expectation. The fact that such expectations do not match reality does not at all change the magical wish fulfillment ideation of LE command folks, the uninformed public, and other children.

This incident appears to be a failure on multiple levels. But I'm tired of screaming myself hoarse to people who don't listen. The country is getting the LE that they asked for. The fact that it doesn't work? Huh....imagine that.

If you want a highly trained, professional police department, you have to hire and select the right people, and pay to properly train them. I don't see the will to do this anywhere in our society right now.

Yup. There are "swat teams" and there are "SWAT teams."

Having worked with BORTAC/ BORSTAR over the years, they are major league players.

[wvincent]

They have a lot of hardware. Hardware doesn't always = capability. The USBP/ICE-HSI/Zavala county team had the same hardware (except for a rifle rate shield) but a higher level of capability.

Attachment 90406

So, sitting here in my office, with the A/C cranked and nobody shooting at me, and not being able to hear the sound of children being savagely murdered, I have the luxury of hindsight.

It just appears that all of the officers involved were stymied by chain of command and an IC who made some piss poor decisions? For those who have never worked under a COC it's basically the rest of the Commandments from God that Mose's didn't bring down off the mountain. Works pretty well, until it doesn't..

Is it possible that the use of BWC's takes away some individual officer initiative? You know, three hard chargers who say f*ck this, pretty sure I heard "go" but the comms suck? Pretty hard to have that collaboration when everybody is being recorded in real time.

That doesn't explain away this, if it is true, just out from Fox at the hearings:

The classroom door, which Fox News Digital first reported was physically brought into the state capitol for Tuesday's hearing, was unlocked, but officers never even tried to open it, McCraw said.

"We set our profession back a decade," he said.

McCraw testified that on video, he never saw anyone put a hand on the door before the keys arrived. Yet, he said it turns out the classroom door could not be locked from the inside.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-off...rs-waited-keys

NOBODY tried the door?

[Shotgun]

The fact that such expectations do not match reality does not at all change the magical wish fulfillment ideation of LE command folks, the uninformed public, and other children.

Good comment.

[feudist]

WSJ just now:

AUSTIN, Texas—Officers at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, last month had nothing barring them from entering a dual classroom where a shooter was actively gunning down students and teachers, the chief of the Texas Department of Public Safety said Tuesday.

The classroom door wasn’t locked, DPS Director Steven McCraw said during a hearing before a Texas Senate committee hearing Tuesday. Police officers armed with rifles and protected by body armor were on the scene within three minutes. Even had the door been secured, officers had tools to break it open. Yet they waited an hour and 14 minutes to go into the classroom, despite hearing ongoing gunshots, knowing children had been shot inside and knowing that at least one teacher shot was still alive.

If he's correct...JFC.

Seppuku.

[Caballoflaco]

Absofuckinglutely. I have repeatedly told my Command level folks that you will never get Major League performance out of Junior Varsity players with T Ball training. But thats their, and the publics', expectation. The fact that such expectations do not match reality does not at all change the magical wish fulfillment ideation of LE command folks, the uninformed public, and other children.

This incident appears to be a failure on multiple levels. But I'm tired of screaming myself hoarse to people who don't listen. The country is getting the LE that they asked for. The fact that it doesn't work? Huh....imagine that.

If you want a highly trained, professional police department, you have to hire and select the right people, and pay to properly train them. I don't see the will to do this anywhere in our society right now.

This is going to sound anti-rural and that isn’t my intention because it happens in inner cities too.

Even if every police department had a budget to be selective with their candidates and pay well “brain drain” from areas with no economic opportunity is also a very real thing and it effects all aspects of life and government in some parts of our country. The sad fact is that not everyone is going to have the most competent police force when you consider the size of our nation, the opportunities out there for driven individuals and the reality that nepotism and shitty leadership can lead to places that couldn’t or wouldn’t hire good folks because they’re so toxic

(None of this is specific to Uvalde because I’m personally unfamiliar with that town, but these are things I’ve seen in action in some small towns around these parts)