Active Shooter Uvalde TX Elementary School

[TCFD273]

I haven’t read all the posts regarding breaching….but outward vs inward being harder…nah

It’s a different technique, but I can get through one with a halligan and flat head axe in no time.


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[BaiHu]

Don’t play f***ing semantics with me.

This situation required getting in immediately and being ready to fight and kill the subject immediately. What you were suggesting would not do that. All it would do was telegraph your intentions and give the shooter a green light to run up his body count before you kill him.

There’s a lot of f***ing issues here But the fact that nobody started wacking away on the door with a fire ax is not one of them.

Questions:
1. Was this the first floor?
2. If it was the first floor, no windows to breach into from the outside?
3. Since 2 would make too much sense, I'd guess it was a second floor classroom, but it just seems odd since the initial entry was a propped open 1st floor door, so you figure he hits the first classroom he sees, no?
4. How's it take an hour for the janitor to get keys?
5. WTF is the principal, etc and why do they not have keys?
6. WTF do we just not have a master key at the PD as well or in every cruiser? I get that if there are 9k keys out there, then why have keys, but....just spit balling.

[HCM]

I would rather have someone trying either a 12 ga breach or an axe while waiting for a key than not.

There is no evidence anyone was waiting on the key.

This was a situation where a failed or slow breach was just as bad or if not worse.

Have you ever breached a door with a shotgun? It’s great for wood doors, even heavy well-built hardwood doors but on a steel door in a steel frame it’s not gonna end well.

[fixer]

There is no evidence anyone was waiting on the key.

This was a situation where a failed or slow breach was just as bad or if not worse.

Have you ever breached a door with a shotgun? It’s great for wood doors, even heavy well-built hardwood doors but on a steel door in a steel frame it’s not gonna end well.

No evidence?

Lol. Ok.

[TGS]

"While you’re f***ing around with that the shooter is inside killing people"

He was doing that while they stood in the hall waiting for the key...

From what I've read and took from the press conference, I do not believe this is a factual understanding of the situation and timeline.

Think of it this way: if they started hammering away on the door for 5 minutes to make entry and the shooter went back to killing kids, and killed ALL of them in the room, what would be your reaction and condemnation for the police in getting ALL of the kids killed?

From what I've read so far, it sound like where the ISD Chief MAY have gone off the rails is refusing to green light BORTAC after they had assembled and had found a viable way to conduct an in-extremis hostage rescue....at that point, I'm not sure what sort of criteria he was waiting on. From what I've read this far, the initial decision to transition to a barricade/hostage situation may have been reasonable.

Caveat being that we don't know all the facts yet, and most of what is being reported by the news is extremely slanted and misrepresented because rage-porn makes money.

As for the dudes jocked up outside, realize that they were likely in an information deficit and following what they believed to be the best decision. If I role up to an active shooter and there's already 100+ LEOs on scene and I'm told, "It's now a barricade hostage situation, BORTAC is here, and we've already got more than enough personnel in the school", then I'm going to do what the IC tells me (stage, assist the perimeter, be prepared for CCP duties, whatever). That would not make the person a coward....that's quite literally the responsible, correct and ethical thing to do.

[Lost River]

A rural school in the deep South might be more likely to arm teachers than would a northern school in the Middle Atlantic states. Ultimately school boards decide such issues. Liability looms as a major risk in either location, and then there are cultural views that become determinants. In my school the head janitor was a retired Army guy who served two years as a grunt in Vietnam. He was smart, alert, and sober. He would have been a good choice for an armed employee.

A number of years ago in response to some critical school incidents, I was approached by a member of a school board of a small mountain town in central ID. Long and short of it is that they wanted to arm the faculty but there was a huge debate about how to go about it. A bunch of "security experts" were approaching them offering training.

The person whom was a family friend and knew my background asked if I would be willing to train the faculty/staff, and or offer to consult. I declined. I did not live directly in the area and the whole thing looked like it had potential to be a political nightmare between people with opposing views.
I stated I would give some guidance and instead I wrote up a basic proposal for them. In a nutshell, I suggested that they ask only for faculty members who wanted to participate in the program, volunteer. Nothing mandatory.

The primary issue was that they were 45 minutes (at best) from the Sheriff's Office. In the winter it could be double that on icy roads. Basically if a critical incident happened they were on their own. The Sheriff's Office was too poor to afford a full time SRO.

So utilizing the "Occam's razor" principle that the simplest answer is usually the correct one, I figured that it would be easiest to simply train a select few faculty members in very basic law enforcement skills. Teach them to be reserve officers. Have them get background checks, the whole deal. The reduces the liability for the district.



I told them that they should coordinate with their county Sheriff's Office and have those volunteers go through basic reserve officer training. This way there was a POST certified standard of training that was already approved for legal reasons. The volunteers would follow the same rules as a reserve officer in terms of use of force, escalation, etc. Basically they would not have to re-invent the wheel. They would simply add a new skill set. The volunteers attend training provided by the Sheriffs Office, and the Sheriffs office benefits by having additional resources when needed for special events.

The school board member approached the board and the Sheriff and they went with the plan, much to the chagrin of some training outfits who were looking to make a TON of money off of long term training contracts with the school district. They now have long guns stored on site at the school and there are certain faculty members are armed reserve officers. There are also signs at this public school that state that the school staff is armed.

This has been 8 or 9 years probably now, and as far as I know there have been no major incidents.

My school board family friend was a very popular gal when she pitched that idea to them all.

[LittleLebowski]

Gomez’s claim has been investigated and it was determined US marshals did not arrest or handcuff anyone at the scene. The US Marshalls here in the western district Texas are wearing body cameras now whenever they are wearing body armor so….

There are claims that one father was pepper sprayed and taken down and another was tased. Don’t know the status of those two.

So either she’s lying completely or she’s confused on who cuffed her. What do you think?

[TGS]

So either she’s lying completely or she’s confused on who cuffed her. What do you think?

My guess is confused.

Even people on here, a decidedly pro-LE gun forum, usually have no clue what they're talking about when they see cops on the street.

[LittleLebowski]

My guess is confused.

Even people on here, a decidedly pro-LE gun forum, usually have no clue what they're talking about when they see cops on the street.

Precisely.

[Casual Friday]

My guess is confused.

Even people on here, a decidedly pro-LE gun forum, usually have no clue what they're talking about when they see cops on the street.

My mother in law argued with me once that TSA are Air Marshals.