Active Shooter Uvalde TX Elementary School

[TGS]

Of course, I'm out of the game for some years now...but I always had a 10 lb. sledge and Halligan in the trunk of my G-ride. Now they're in my basement.

Yeah, even the mini-kits that are purpose built for active shooter response work well enough.

I used my set to give an impromptu class to an OCDETF strike force at a SW location towards the end of last year on how to breach a safe in 5 minutes, so I know it works even if not as easy to use as the full size tools.

[BehindBlueI's]

He said they couldn’t even ride around with blasting caps. 🤷🏻

He also just said that the calculations were more important for interior doors vs exterior. They have a program that did most of the work for them so the calculations could be made very quickly.

I never had to deal with non-military regulations outside of placarding requirements on public roads, but I'm sure it's a vast and byzantine world to navigate. I don't know, but I also assume that pricing for these explosives is substantial and out of reach for many smaller departments or wide spread issuance over even the best funded. As such, perhaps it's just a rabbit hole that is ultimately not very relevant to the main ideas of the thread.

[HCM]

My question got lost in the noise a few pages back, but I'm still curious about flash bangs. I assume they're not readily available to most LE? I've been on the receiving end of a few and after solving the problem of getting into the door, I have to imagine they'd have worked well to reduce the number of shots taken by the entry team. I was already wearing peltors when I got hit with them and they were still disorienting.

I can’t speak to any of the local PD officers who made it to the scene but Border patrol and Bortac are subject to the same DHS requirements as my agency. As such flash bangs are pretty tightly controlled items. ATF considers them destructive devices so they are administratively controlled like a firearm and usually only issued out when needed for training or preplanned operations.

Accounting for expended flash bangs is a headache at every annual inventory.

While they are pretty small scale compared to most military ordinance, I’m aware of officers losing hands and fingers due to flash bang accidents/malfunctions.

[blues]

Yeah, even the mini-kits that are purpose built for active shooter response work well enough.

I used my set to give an impromptu class to an OCDETF strike force at a SW location towards the end of last year on how to breach a safe in 5 minutes, so I know it works even if not as easy to use as the full size tools.

There's a term I haven't heard in some time...having spent some time in OCDETF / HIDTA / JTTF & SRT.

It's good to have tools and to know how to use them.

[blues]

I can’t speak to any of the local PD officers who made it to the scene but Border patrol and Bortňák are subject to the same DHS requirements as my agency. As such flash bangs are pretty tightly controlled items. ATF considers them destructive devices so they are administratively controlled like a firearm and usually only issued out when needed for training or preplanned operations.

While they are pretty small scale compared to most military ordinance, I’m aware of officers losing hands and fingers due to flash bang accidents/malfunctions.

Not to mention setting things on fire.

[HCM]

I'm happy to take this conversation private if you guys desire, but having taken a 1 week class with FDNY that included some pretty incredible mechanical breaching (those guys are artists, truly), I'm not sure what tools you guys are referring to that aren't readily available to LE, or even already employed, that would also be realistically deployable by patrol cops that aren't working off heavy-duty apparatus with power generation. For background reference/context, I'm trained on the standard stuff like rams/halligans/pry bars, as well as stuff like rabbits and some more complex recovery tools/hooks (i.e. I don't consider any of those to be fire tools, since they're already in use by LE).

I'm interested to hear.

Also, just curious, do you guys even have the basics in patrol cars, even if just the active-shooter oriented breaching backpack that is specifically made for these situations? Kind of putting the card before the horse if we're talking about training/equipping patrol cops to spread a door frame if you're not first carrying the basics in your trunk to begin with.

I have a Halligan a sledge (full size) and a shield (pistol rated) In my work car all the time.

That stuff works great on residential and light commercial doors. The hardened doors and steel door frames which have been retrofitted into Texas schools are significantly sturdier. As I said earlier you could get through them with mechanical preaching but not in a timely fashion required for hostage rescue.

[HCM]

Not to mention setting things on fire.

Ironically, an agent who later wound up in our office of professional responsibility once unintentionally burned down a narcotic stash house here with flash bangs.

[TC215]

While they are pretty small scale compared to most military ordinance, I’m aware of officers losing hands and fingers due to flash bang accidents/malfunctions.

I had one go off at my feet about 5 years ago while I was making entry through a window. A teammate threw it and it bounced back (that’s what friends are for). It melted part of my boots and pants.

I don’t recommend the experience.

[Wake27]

I can’t speak to any of the local PD officers who made it to the scene but Border patrol and Bortňák are subject to the same DHS requirements as my agency. As such flash bangs are pretty tightly controlled items. ATF considers them destructive devices so they are administratively controlled like a firearm and usually only issued out when needed for training or preplanned operations.

While they are pretty small scale compared to most military ordinance, I’m aware of officers losing hands and fingers due to flash bang accidents/malfunctions.

Yeah we had a guy blow his finger off, but that was a malfunctioning device. I don't know how often they malfo but we use them a lot for SFAUC and I was upstairs when the building got hit by multiple, plus one good throw right in front of me. I assumed control would be tight, maybe even a little too tight.

[blues]

Ironically, an agent who later wound up in our office of professional responsibility once unintentionally burned down a narcotic stash house here with flash bangs.

Reminds me of someone who was on my team years ago in Miami. I won't sidetrack into that matter.