Active Shooter Uvalde TX Elementary School

[HCM]

They had steel doors in school? Do you know the type of the door?

Class 2 industrial steel doors. It was part of a recent “hardening” of the school.

The doors were supposed to lock automatically, requiring a key to enter from outside. Part of the determination re: the door not being locked was based on an unfulfilled maintenance request regarding the lock on that classroom door.

[breakingtime91]

Class 2 industrial steel doors. It was part of a recent “hardening” of the school.

The doors were supposed to lock automatically, requiring a key to enter from outside. Part of the determination re: the door not being locked was based on an unfulfilled maintenance request regarding the lock on that classroom door.

Fuck.. I will have to read the report to see how he gained access into the school in the first place.

[HCM]

Fuck.. I will have to read the report to see how he gained access into the school in the first place.

That door was also supposed to lock automatically.

From the ALERRT report:

Circumstances Before the Suspect Entered the Building

We identified three key issues that occurred prior to the suspect gaining entry to the building. First, a teacher propped open the exterior door at 11:27:14. ALERRT staff noted rocks (some of which were painted) were placed at most external doors of the building. Based on this observation, it appears that propping doors open is common practice at this school. While the teacher did kick the rock and close the door prior to the suspect making entry, and the propping open of the door did not affect what happened in this situation, circumventing access control procedures can create a situation that results in danger to students. After the teacher closed the door, she did not check to see if the door was locked. Perhaps this was because the door is usually locked. However, on this day the door was not locked, and because it was not locked, the attacker was able to immediately access the building. This again highlights the importance of not circumventing access control procedures. Even if the teacher had checked to see if the door was locked, it appears that she did not have the proper key or tool to engage the locking mechanism on the door. Finally, we note that the door was a steel frame with a large glass inlay. This glass was not ballistic glass, nor was there film on the glass to maintain the integrity of the door if the suspect shot the glass. This suggests that the suspect would have been able to gain access to the building even if the door was locked.

[Wake27]

Not sure because it isn't our reality. I am on both sides of the fence. I know most teachers don't have my background or skill level. But for my skill level and personality, I would absolutely want to engage as soon as possible to end the threat. Other side of that is my students would have to be handed off to another teacher (we work in teams, our doors are 5 ft apart) or to leave my own students alone. There is no perfect answer. Throw in that my son goes to school in the place I teach, and ya. It will be really hard for me in a real world scenario not to secure my own son or at least try to neutralize the threat before anything could happen.

Even if you care for the kids in your room, I’m sure you’d regret losing your son more than any of them. I’d only feel a little bad about my daughter being the 100% priority. If you stop the shooter en route or after securing your kid, great. But if I stayed in one room (regardless of who was in there, to include my wife) while my daughter was murdered in another room, I’m not sure I’d live much longer.


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[breakingtime91]

Even if you care for the kids in your room, I’m sure you’d regret losing your son more than any of them. I’d only feel a little bad about my daughter being the 100% priority. If you stop the shooter en route or after securing your kid, great. But if I stayed in one room (regardless of who was in there, to include my wife) while my daughter was murdered in another room, I’m not sure I’d live much longer.


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It is something I have thought about a lot. I have my own plan and make sure there are others that can fill my professional role incase I am incapacitated or killed.

[DDTSGM]

How are people feeling about the news media releasing this tape just a few days before the government was going to show it to the victims' families, and then release it to the public?

I think the amount of explaining they did pretty much proved the point that they were primarily doing it for ratings and not for the families. That's JMO.

[Paul D]

Actually, we do and I have...operated on my own kid, that is. In fact, I’ve been called on to save the life of more friends and family members in exigent circumstances than I’d like to count because nobody else around me was capable.
Virtually every emergency physician working in a single coverage shop has been put in the situation of treating family and friends to save a life or limb.

What people are forgetting is that we are sometimes called on to do our jobs in circumstances where we have emotional attachments that would normally be handled by some other capable party, but those other resources don’t exist.

I think that people are also failing to realize that there are exceedingly rare instances where the fact that the police are present doesn’t necessarily mean that they are behaving like police. Take for example the the Floyd case in MN. Multiple cops were present, but none of them were behaving like cops. Thus, there is the very unusual circumstance where a civilian witness would have been justified in using physical force to stop the police and prevent a murder. Thus, I’m not willing to rule out the possibility of civilian intervention resulting in a more favorable outcome simply because there were a lot of guys and gals with badges standing around and not acting like cops.

1) You are a highly experienced and skilled emergency physician. So operating in an emergency situation within your field of practice on your own family and friends would be appropriate. You doing a cath on a STEMI patient because a cardiologist was not available is another story. Sometimes you just have to give lytics (ugh) and transfer out. This Uvale situation is absolutely rare (unique?) event. I'm afraid this will set up a justification to label all events a "Uvale Event" and go hog wild with applying street justice.

2) You are right about the Floyd event. In hindsight, a bystander would have been justified in pushing Chauvin off of Floyd's neck. Let's say a couple of cops have a combative BLM/Antifa dude on ground trying to secure him. BLM/Antifa friend/bystander could say he was getting 'murdered' and attack the cops. What's the ground rules now? Are we going to make it up and ignore the standards like those Uvale cops did?

I know I am ranting unfairly but this event is so gut wrenching and intellectually I'm conflicted. On one hand, we are condemning those cops for failure to adhere to a standard of professionalism, excellence and decency while on the other hand we are saying it's okay to suspend those standards. In the end, I am so mad at those 'officers'. I hope they get burned so badly from this sentinel event that no agency will allow this to happen again. I'm probably wrong this too.

[Sensei]

I think the amount of explaining they did pretty much proved the point that they were primarily doing it for ratings and not for the families. That's JMO.

Perhaps. But the local reporting is not painting a pretty picture for Ulvalde police and city officials. It seems that a lot of locals are not confident that the police will release an accurate version of the tape. This is an interesting article:

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/...-video-n482544

The problem with that theory is that we don’t know what will or won’t be shown to the parents during their private screening. Karen wrote earlier about the outrage displayed by city officials at last night’s Uvalde city council meeting that the video was leaked early, with one calling it “chickensh*t.” As you’ll see, one resident rightly retorted that they should care more about chickensh*t cops than about the press: “Y’all are attacking the media. Y’all should attack the cops who did nothing.” The powers that be there continue to have strange priorities in what offends them and what doesn’t. The key bit, though, is what the “chickensh*t” official says about the upcoming screening for parents: “That part of that video was not supposed to be in what they’re doing on Sunday.”

Maybe he means that the video the parents will see won’t have audio of the gunshots and/or won’t show the shooter entering the building, to spare them from having to see him. (The AAS’s version edited out the screams of the children but not the sound of the shots.) But why would we trust any Uvalde official, cop or otherwise, at this point not to bowdlerize the footage in order to make it look less damaging to the cops? They’ve delayed the release of the video for nearly two months. They provided false information to DPS in the immediate aftermath of the massacre. They’ve reportedly harassed parents who spoke up about the police response.

There’s no reason to trust these people at this point, which is why the clip leaked in the first place, I assume. Even those on the inside of the city’s response don’t trust their colleagues to be on the up and up about the footage that’s released. If anything, including the sound of the gunshots in the AAS edit was important in that it prevents the city from lying about the number and timing of those shots.

[Sensei]

1) You are a highly experienced and skilled emergency physician. So operating in an emergency situation within your field of practice on your own family and friends would be appropriate. You doing a cath on a STEMI patient because a cardiologist was not available is another story. Sometimes you just have to give lytics (ugh) and transfer out. This Uvale situation is absolutely rare (unique?) event. I'm afraid this will set up a justification to label all events a "Uvale Event" and go hog wild with applying street justice.

2) You are right about the Floyd event. In hindsight, a bystander would have been justified in pushing Chauvin off of Floyd's neck. Let's say a couple of cops have a combative BLM/Antifa dude on ground trying to secure him. BLM/Antifa friend/bystander could say he was getting 'murdered' and attack the cops. What's the ground rules now? Are we going to make it up and ignore the standards like those Uvale cops did?

I know I am ranting unfairly but this event is so gut wrenching and intellectually I'm conflicted. On one hand, we are condemning those cops for failure to adhere to a standard of professionalism, excellence and decency while on the other hand we are saying it's okay to suspend those standards. In the end, I am so mad at those 'officers'. I hope they get burned so badly from this sentinel event that no agency will allow this to happen again. I'm probably wrong this too.

Ask yourself this, what would your response be to watching a news report of parents in a 3rd world country storming a school to save kids while the police stood back and waited for “the right people to arrive.” You’d probably think, “Well, they did what they had to do. It’s too bad that 5 or 6 parents were killed in the process, but fortunately that kind of thing wouldn’t happen here.”

Unfortunately, it’s beginning to look like it did happen here - at least the first half where the cops stood waiting. Perhaps the second half happened as well, but this mother who claims to have gained access to the school to save her kids is now being allegedly harassed by the police. If true, you can’t make this shit up:

https://globalnews.ca/news/8957137/u...ce-harassment/

https://jezebel.com/uvalde-mom-who-r...1849125200/amp

It’s an interesting lesson in psychology, as more people of authority arrive and do nothing, the negative intertia builds to the point that gunfire and screams that reportedly came from the room were not enough to cause action. Yet, we mustn’t rush to judgement, all the facts must be brought to light, and we must consider what those officers MIGHT have been told in the instant. Never mind the pretty unanimous agreement that the training is to always challenge the shooter and the barricade.

[wsr]

Sounds like the “in going home at the end of my shift” mentality that is repeated like a mantra by LEOs was well rooted