Active Shooter Uvalde TX Elementary School

[RoyGBiv]

Response to video release from Dir of TX DPS.

Emphasis mine.

“I am deeply disappointed this video was released before all of the families who were impacted that day and the community of Uvalde had the opportunity to view it as part of Chairman Dustin Burrows’ plan. Those most affected should have been among the first to see it. As I stated during my testimony before the Senate Special Committee to Protect All Texans, this video provides horrifying evidence that the law enforcement response to the attack at Robb Elementary on May 24 was an abject failure. In law enforcement, when one officer fails, we all fail.”

https://twitter.com/@twitter/status/1546979582141767680

Full(? 82+ minutes) video...

[TCinVA]

The Bortac guy who did the work had the problem solved three minutes after he is seen on camera.

Which is about what I expected. Dude shows up, sees this unforgivable fuck circus, takes initiative and handles business.

...which any one of those malingering dipshits could have done in the seventy plus minutes prior.

In various corners of the interwebs I've seen a lot of bleating about training, as in "You don't understand! Most police just aren't well trained!" which is funny, because I do, in fact, understand. I understand it quite well. So well, in fact, that part of what I do is try to remedy that situation. In practically every instance where I have tried, it has been shut down by apathy from police departments and officers themselves.

Just as an example: ARay and I volunteered to show up at a fairly large PD's academy to do a train the trainer sort of thing to help them get better at coaching and instructing struggling shooters. (Something we're both good at.) Everything was lined up. We had vacation days arranged, travel arrangements made, the works. And we were volunteering to come in there and do this. Some people inside the agency had seen our work and wanted to bring us in, but of course no budget was provided for paying us. Well, that was fine. We were just fine doing it for free just because we're that committed to doing what we can to help.

A week out, a completely free session designed to help their instructors be better instructors got shut down, too. That is but one of literally dozens of instances of similar bullshit I could cite.

I've lost count of how many times I've tried to help sworn officers FOR FREE, going to the lengths of taking days off work and making travel arrangements only to have the very same individuals who begged me for help blow the scheduled training off because "Oh, I planned something with my family that day." or something similarly fucking ridiculous.

I've been involved in training for 20+ years now. Police, in the main, don't fucking train beyond department minimums. And for 20 years I've heard police from all over the place bleat and whine about how training should be provided and they should be paid to do it on department time and not lose any of their own time because reasons. Meanwhile every other profession in the goddamn country involves people investing their own time and their own money in learning or improving skills that are useful in their employment. If someone works in IT, medicine, construction, law, accountancy, or any host of other professional tracks in this country, they spend hours outside of the office learning or honing skills they use on the job. They take time away from their lives and their families to get it done because that's what it takes. Even the fucking useless HR drones do that shit on their own time and their own dime. If you are in a job that doesn't involve asking if you want fries with that, you are going to have to spend your own time and your own money improving your skills just to keep up. That's the reality of the working world.

But cops? No, somehow cops are uniquely exempt from the requirement damn near everyone else in society has to invest in their own capability.

Part of the reason this persists is because excuses keep getting made for it.

I know police who invest their own time and resources into training. They are usually alone in their department in that tendency. And, strangely enough, they are usually the first on scene when something bad happens even though they are hardly ever the closest one to the problem. And when they, in turn, offer to assist any other officers on their department with getting better at skills that can save their lives, they rarely get takers, too. Or, worse, their administration gets wind of it and actively orders them to stop.

Wrapping cowardice, stupidity, and suck in a flag and demanding people salute it produces these kinds of horrible outcomes. It needs to stop.

[fixer]

I think they edited out the screaming from the kids. Important contextual element in watching the video.

[CraigS]

TC I agree completely. I am not a cop or a trainer. I am just an interested guy who watches the news. Uvalde is a current example of how horribly bad it can get. I thought Columbine had caused some improvement. I have seen statements to the effect that protocol now is that the first officer on the scene goes in. Unfortunately Uvalde proved that the new protocol is nowhere near universal. In the last 2 years or so we have seen many situations where cops did what most of us here would say was the right thing but had no backup from their superiors when some bleated about excessive force or similar BS. We have seen at every level how cops have become the bad guys in some eyes. I can see, in this environment, how a cop will think twice about getting involved. Why risk MY life cleaning up a drug deal or similar when the guy will be back on the street immediately or within 24 hours? But dang this was kids getting massacred, how all those cops thought it OK to sit and do nothing is beyond me.

[blues]

I have no words...

I am twisted up in knots over this.

Exactly why I have not been posting.

[Wake27]

The Bortac guy who did the work had the problem solved three minutes after he is seen on camera.

Which is about what I expected. Dude shows up, sees this unforgivable fuck circus, takes initiative and handles business.

...which any one of those malingering dipshits could have done in the seventy plus minutes prior.

In various corners of the interwebs I've seen a lot of bleating about training, as in "You don't understand! Most police just aren't well trained!" which is funny, because I do, in fact, understand. I understand it quite well. So well, in fact, that part of what I do is try to remedy that situation. In practically every instance where I have tried, it has been shut down by apathy from police departments and officers themselves.

Just as an example: ARay and I volunteered to show up at a fairly large PD's academy to do a train the trainer sort of thing to help them get better at coaching and instructing struggling shooters. (Something we're both good at.) Everything was lined up. We had vacation days arranged, travel arrangements made, the works. And we were volunteering to come in there and do this. Some people inside the agency had seen our work and wanted to bring us in, but of course no budget was provided for paying us. Well, that was fine. We were just fine doing it for free just because we're that committed to doing what we can to help.

A week out, a completely free session designed to help their instructors be better instructors got shut down, too. That is but one of literally dozens of instances of similar bullshit I could cite.

I've lost count of how many times I've tried to help sworn officers FOR FREE, going to the lengths of taking days off work and making travel arrangements only to have the very same individuals who begged me for help blow the scheduled training off because "Oh, I planned something with my family that day." or something similarly fucking ridiculous.

I've been involved in training for 20+ years now. Police, in the main, don't fucking train beyond department minimums. And for 20 years I've heard police from all over the place bleat and whine about how training should be provided and they should be paid to do it on department time and not lose any of their own time because reasons. Meanwhile every other profession in the goddamn country involves people investing their own time and their own money in learning or improving skills that are useful in their employment. If someone works in IT, medicine, construction, law, accountancy, or any host of other professional tracks in this country, they spend hours outside of the office learning or honing skills they use on the job. They take time away from their lives and their families to get it done because that's what it takes. Even the fucking useless HR drones do that shit on their own time and their own dime. If you are in a job that doesn't involve asking if you want fries with that, you are going to have to spend your own time and your own money improving your skills just to keep up. That's the reality of the working world.

But cops? No, somehow cops are uniquely exempt from the requirement damn near everyone else in society has to invest in their own capability.

Part of the reason this persists is because excuses keep getting made for it.

I know police who invest their own time and resources into training. They are usually alone in their department in that tendency. And, strangely enough, they are usually the first on scene when something bad happens even though they are hardly ever the closest one to the problem. And when they, in turn, offer to assist any other officers on their department with getting better at skills that can save their lives, they rarely get takers, too. Or, worse, their administration gets wind of it and actively orders them to stop.

Wrapping cowardice, stupidity, and suck in a flag and demanding people salute it produces these kinds of horrible outcomes. It needs to stop.

Cops aren’t uniquely exempt, I think it has something to do with the safety/security of government jobs. Much of the military is the same pathetic way. When dying in the line of duty is a rare case and getting fired for just being trash is also rare, it breeds gross and pathetic complacency.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TCinVA]

Cops aren’t uniquely exempt, I think it has something to do with the safety/security of government jobs. Much of the military is the same pathetic way. When dying in the line of duty is a rare case and getting fired for just being trash is also rare, it breeds gross and pathetic complacency.

I've worked for the government so I've certainly seen it there, too...but even in most of those jobs it's not outright defended the same way I see it being done in policing. It's not just apathy toward key aspects of the job, it's outright hostility at even the insinuation that they have any responsibility to be better followed quickly by the argument from authority of the person pointing out the problem not getting it or being worthy of speaking on it because they aren't part of the club.

[LittleLebowski]

Paul Howe picks it back up with some prescriptions to fix LE in Texas including Uvalde. He's Texas proud and this is evidently not pleasant for him.

Key points - AG Paxton's plan to buy $50 Million worth of shields for TX LE is stupid. Words to the effect, they can't shoot with two hands and now they're supposed to shoot with one carrying a heavy shield. Plus the shield emphasis is a defensive mindset which is 180 out from where you outta be. It takes a lot of time and training to get effective with a shield.

He breaks down where that $50 Million should be spent instead.

But AG Paxton will surely buy the shields (as @TC215 posted, "we", in this case Texans chose this)

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CfRI3BN..._web_copy_link

I’m not impressed with Paxton at all. He should be investigating this, no holds barred instead of his current silly shit. And yes, the money should be spent on training, not shields.

[LittleLebowski]

There’s a reason Leroy Jenkins is a model for rushing into bad decisions.

If whether or not someone followed was the only standard the charge of the light brigade would be seen as a positive example. And yet it’s not.

In this context sending an emotionally distraught Officer and hoping your Leeroy Jenkins / Hail Mary plan will end the situation would be reckless and possibly criminally negligent.

And yet, there were criminally negligent and cowardly actions that happened, probably way worse than say detaining someone who actually had the balls to take action.

[HCM]

TC I agree completely. I am not a cop or a trainer. I am just an interested guy who watches the news. Uvalde is a current example of how horribly bad it can get. I thought Columbine had caused some improvement. I have seen statements to the effect that protocol now is that the first officer on the scene goes in. Unfortunately Uvalde proved that the new protocol is nowhere near universal. In the last 2 years or so we have seen many situations where cops did what most of us here would say was the right thing but had no backup from their superiors when some bleated about excessive force or similar BS. We have seen at every level how cops have become the bad guys in some eyes. I can see, in this environment, how a cop will think twice about getting involved. Why risk MY life cleaning up a drug deal or similar when the guy will be back on the street immediately or within 24 hours? But dang this was kids getting massacred, how all those cops thought it OK to sit and do nothing is beyond me.

The single officer / ASAP protocol is universal in every LE active shooter training program I’m aware of.

However, as clearly seen here, whether or not that protocol is actually followed is different matter.

As for how something like this happens the answers are found in group dynamics.

Once the initial response stalled that became the group dynamic.

There is a phrase thrown about that calm is contagious and so is panic. Well gridlock can be contagious too. Many UOF trainers talk about “contagious fire” where a group of LEOs confront a suspect, one fires followed by others who subsequently stated that they fired because their partner fired. Well not firing when someone clearly needs to be shot is contagious too. The example which comes to mind being the response to the shooting of TX DPS Trooper Vedder in Hays County, TX by an elderly sovereign citizen.



A secondary issue is that cops are hierarchical. Once command staff showed up and pulled the emergency brake on the already stalled train, a lot of inertia had to be overcome for the DHS lead team to self initiate their entry.

All of which makes what the DHS lead team did more significant.