I dont want to derail this thread, but being partnered up with a teacher this is of personal interest so I started a separate thread for discussion. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....37#post1374037Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer
I dont want to derail this thread, but being partnered up with a teacher this is of personal interest so I started a separate thread for discussion. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....37#post1374037
Ken
BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
revchuck38: ...”mo' ammo is mo' betta' unless you're swimming or on fire.”
Charl Van Wyk routed grenade and assault rile armed terrorists from his church in '93 with his J-frame, though he was seated in the pews rather than giving a sermon.
I don't have anything against Mike Glover, I'm a big proponent of seizing opportunities that may enrich your life financially or otherwise. If that's leaning on experience and military service, good for them. I look at Fieldcraft Survival more as a lifestyle brand rather than just a shooting and tactics school like Gunsite or Thunder Ranch. One could argue they're the Patagonia/North Face/Filson of the training industry. I don't mean that negatively. There's a market there and they're capitalizing on it.
The Texas House of Representatives has issued its 77-page report on the shooting:
https://www.house.texas.gov/_media/p...tee-Report.pdf
I hadn't read these suggestions before I posted in the other thread. In a school setting the teacher would only have a keycard for THEIR classroom. The admin office should have the ability to overide and lock all doors.
Still have to use keys to get into the building.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....
There a lot to digest in the report but two sections address matters which have been points of contention in this thread.
Regarding the inaccurate claim (improvidently repeated in the ALERRT report) that a rifle armed UPD officer missed an opportunity to shoot the suspect outside the school.
From pages 42 & 43:
Regarding breaching, keys, the unlocked door and the inaccurate claim by by Mike Glover about what BORTAC et. al. we’re made aware of prior to entry.At around the same time, another Uvalde Police officer, Sgt. Daniel Coronado, also arrived on the scene. He wore his uniform and a vest, but he had no rifle plates for protection. Sgt. Coronado first stopped his patrol vehicle at the south end of South Grove Street where it dead-ends into Geraldine Street. He saw two Uvalde Police officers at the intersection who had arrived before him. Sgt. Coronado exited his vehicle, heard gunfire, and asked where the shooting was occurring. At first, the other officers said they did not know, and they could not see the attacker.113
One of those officers testified to the Committee that, based on the sound of echoes, he believed the shooter had fired in their direction.114 That officer saw children dressed in bright colors in the playground, all running away. Then, at a distance exceeding 100 yards, he saw a person dressed in black, also running away. Thinking that the person dressed in black was the attacker, he raised his rifle and asked Sgt. Coronado for permission to shoot.115
111 Committee testimony of SSgt. Eduardo Canales, Uvalde Police (June 29, 2022). 112 Committee testimony of Lt. Javier Martinez, Uvalde Police (June 29, 2022).
113 Committee testimony of Sgt. Daniel Coronado, Uvalde Police (June 20, 2022).
114 The Committee is unaware of any public reporting about this episode that has identified the police officer by name. The officer testified before the Committee. In light of the Committee’s determination that the description of this episode by ALERRT—then widely reported by the media—is likely incorrect, we likewise decline to identify him by name for purposes of this report.
115 See, e.g., Committee testimony of Sgt. Daniel Coronado, Uvalde Police (June 20, 2022). Robb Cmte Rpt • 42 of 77
Sgt. Coronado testified he heard the request, and he hesitated. He knew there were children present. He considered the risk of shooting a child, and he quickly recalled his training that officers are responsible for every round that goes downrange.116
According to the officer who made the request, there was no opportunity for Sgt. Coronado to respond before they heard on the radio that the attacker was running toward the school. The officers testified to the Committee that it turned out that the person they had seen dressed in black was not the attacker, but instead it was Robb Elementary Coach Abraham Gonzales.117 Coach Gonzales had been on his way to the parking lot to leave the school after his lunch duty when he heard a gunshot and then Coach Garcia’s report about the attacker over the radio. He told the children around him to run away.118 Robb Elementary fourth grade teachers Lynn
116 Id.
117 Part 1 of the ALERRT report, included the following narrative in its timeline:
Prior to the suspect’s entry into the building at 11:33:00, according to statements, a Uvalde Police Officer on scene at the crash site observed the suspect carrying a rifle outside the west hall entry. The officer, armed with a rifle, asked his supervisor for permission to shoot the suspect. However, the supervisor either did not hear or responded too late. The officer turned to get confirmation from his supervisor and when he turned back to address the suspect, he had entered the west hallway unabated. (OS per investigating officer interview).
ALERRT, Robb Elementary School Attack Response Assessment and Recommendations, at 4 (July 6, 2022). The ALERRT report appears to rely on an interview conducted by Texas Ranger Michael Schraub, who interviewed the officer in question on May 27, 2022. That report stated:
While in route to the scene Officer [A] advised Officer [B] located the shooter. However, the shooter was located a couple blocks away from the dispatch location. Officer [A] advised upon arrival, the shooter was shooting at Officer [B]. Officer [A] advised he positioned his patrol vehicle while ducking down and grabbing his rifle between the shooter and Officer [B]. Officer [A] advised the purpose was to protect Officer [B] while he exited his patrol vehicle. Officer [A] advised his vehicle was not struck by any projectiles.
Officer [A] advised upon exiting his patrol vehicle he observed the shooter in the distance. When he observed the shooter, Officer [A] advised there were kids in the background. Therefore, Officer [A] advised he hesitated shooting at the suspect. Officer [A] advised he requested permission to shoot, looked back very briefly at Sergeant Coronado, but never received a response. Upon looking back the direction of the shooter Officer [A] advised the shooter was gone.
DPS interview (May 27, 2022). In a subsequent DPS interview, the officer in question described the person he saw not as “the shooter” but as “a person in black toward the back of the school, but kids were behind that individual.” DPS interview (June 13, 2022). These DPS interview reports do not include or support the detail suggested in the ALERRT report that a Uvalde police officer “observed the suspect carrying a rifle outside the west hall entry.” Based on its review of evidence to date, this Committee concludes that it is more likely that the officer saw Coach Gonzales dressed in black near a group of schoolchildren than that there was an actual opportunity to shoot the attacker from over 100 yards away, as assumed by ALERRT’s partial report.
118 DPS interview of Coach Abraham Gonzales (May 28, 2022).
According to the rifle rated shield uses in the entry was supplied by the U.S. Marshals.
From page 61:
BORTAC Acting Commander Paul Guerrero came to the north side of the building upon his arrival at Robb Elementary. In a post-incident statement, he said he was advised “that the subject had possibly shot multiple children and was still in the classroom.” He requested surveillance through the back windows of Rooms 111 and 112 to possibly deploy gas as they made entry. He then went to retrieve a Halligan tool from his car.195 The school’s surveillance camera shows the arrival of a Halligan breaching tool at 12:35 p.m..196 The Committee received no evidence that the arrival of the breaching tool ever was communicated to Chief Arredondo or anyone else on the south side of the building.
According to his statement, Cdr. Guerrero attempted to pry open a door in the hallway to see if the Halligan tool would work. He determined it would take too long and dangerously expose
an officer to gunfire coming from inside the classroom. He observed that the classroom doorway had multiple holes consistent with bullet holes, and he did not want to expose or jeopardize the safety and lives of any officers by trying to pry the door open.197 Cdr. Guerrero then obtained a master key from an officer at the scene. As he made his way to the classroom door, an officer advised him to try it on another door first. He attempted to open another door along the hallway, and it did not work. He saw a few Border Patrol agents and advised them to start setting up for a triage situation of mass casualties. He then received a second master key, which he successfully used to open another door.198
Working with the BORTAC team, Cdr. Guerrero had another agent use the rifle-rated ballistic shield to give him cover as he opened the classroom door. Cdr. Guerrero placed the key in the door to Room 111 and opened the door. (Cdr. Guerrero’s contemporaneous report stated that he unlocked the door,199 but as explained above, there is reason to question whether the door was actually locked.)
Last edited by HCM; 07-17-2022 at 04:44 PM.
Half the people employed in a hospital are not in the “medical field.” They are janitors, maintenance, food services, information tech, laundry, finance, etc. Somehow, they manage to reach up, grab the badge that is hanging from their lapel, and waive it in front of a sensor that then unlocks the door. Amazingly, they are still able to push on the door to open it despite having already performed difficult gross motor movements.
Moreover, they all have various levels of access that allows them to perform their duties without giving them free reign of the hospital. For example, my badge will not allow me to enter the women’s locker room despite me occasionally identifying as a woman. I also do not have access to the medication room or central pharmacy which complicates my dating life (ketamine really helps break the ice).
I like my rifles like my women - short, light, fast, brown, and suppressed.
Did you go to the Bill Cosby School of Medicine?
Ugh. That's all I can say.
Article by Kyle Lamb in the Federalist on Uvalde:
https://thefederalist.com/2022/07/15...erm=2022-07-15
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