That’s my question as well.Originally Posted by wvincent
That’s my question as well.
Likely whomever was running the command post across the street in the funeral home. Normal ICS protocol is for individuals in unit to check in with the command post on arrival at the scene and receive assignments /direction. The BP guys who want up making entry did not arrive until approximately 1215 to 1220. So about 45 minutes after the shooter entered at 11:33 ish.
AFAIK they never received permission to come in the building much less make entry into the classroom. It was all self initiated.
It was an adhoc group consisting of BP (both BORTAC & BORSTAR), one ICE /HSI Agent and a couple Sheriffs deputies (Zavala County - which is the next county south of Uvalde). So not an actual team.
They made a plan and a deliberate conscious decision to make entry - it’s wasn’t a “LeRoy Jenkins.”
Last edited by HCM; 07-13-2022 at 03:30 PM.
How are people feeling about the news media releasing this tape just a few days before the government was going to show it to the victims' families, and then release it to the public?
Thank you for the answer, but it just pisses me off more. Grateful they self initiated, but pissed off to the max that the "chief" did not utilize the resources present even before the "team" self assembled. All that time squandered.
Oh, wait, the "chief" claimed he didn't think he was the IC so it must have been some other incompetent person.
I'm going to go way out on a limb and surmise that since it was in a school everyone demurred to the ISD "chief", until they didn't. Thankfully.
"And for a regular dude I’m maybe okay...but what I learned is if there’s a door, I’m going out it not in it"-Duke
"Just because a girl sleeps with her brother doesn't mean she's easy..."-Blues
The government should have showed it ASAFP. Who of an adult age doesn’t know or understand that something of this magnitude will leak like Niagara Falls.
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While you've provided much needed context and explanations of policy and such early on in the thread before we really knew how bad the situation actually was, even though those of us without a blue bias knew this was a shit sandwich but were told to wait till the facts come out, now that we know what happened through statements of those involved and now video, you're just being the "wElL aKsHuLlY" guy and it's not really a great look for someone such as yourself.
You won't get much argument here that a scared parent who's also a cop rushing into the school with a gun could make situations worse, but it's hard to fuckin' imagine it could have made this clusterfuck any worse. A scared parent with a gun may not be the hero you wish for, it just may be the hero you get and stopping them from going in is just one more item on the list of fucked up decisions where kids most likely died that didn't need to.
It was the right decision. I was a supervisor when I left the local PD for my current agency, and there is no way I would have let someone go in under those circumstances (of course, I wouldn't have guys standing around in the hallway, either).
On the flip side, if I was in the officer's shoes, getting phone calls from my dying wife-- I'm not giving up my gun, and you'd have to kill me to keep me from going in.
What a screwed up mess.
Disturbing video of a whole lot of Betas desperately seeking an Alpha to tell them what to do. Training or lack thereof is a thing but courage, resolve and brute force can overcome many of those short comings. This just wreaks of indecision and cowardice.
Only possible benefit of the doubt that I can see is that initially they didn't know what they were dealing with. Multiple shooters? Hostage situation? Are all other points of entry and exit covered from outside to prevent shooter escape? But after a few minutes even that benefit of the doubt is gone. Ears in the hallway listening told them all they needed to know to assess the situation. Incredible.
It’s not clear what the ISD Chief was doing but there was a apparently a command post established in the nearby funeral home where the mayor and at least some of the other LE Command staff were set up.
The issue of sidelining the teachers husband is separate from the cluster in the hallway. With all the failures (leadership and otherwise) in that video sidelining him is one of the few things which was done right.
To be blunt arguing that injecting someone with a personal connection and compromised judgement is likely to make a bad situation better tells me that you have no experience or background on this. Uvalde is not first time personal involvement has been a factor in a critical incident. Sidelining personnel with personal connections and resulting compromised judgement is critical incident management 101.
The officer in question was the husband of a teacher. There is definitely more going in there than just “scared” going on. Obviously he’s gonna be scared for his wife but he’s also going to be distraught and angry none of which = good judgment. Not only does that reduce the chance of him being effective but he’s a distraction and there is a very real possibility harming himself.
Last edited by HCM; 07-13-2022 at 04:39 PM.
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