Active Shooter Uvalde TX Elementary School

[TGS]

I haven’t read all the posts regarding breaching….but outward vs inward being harder…nah

It’s a different technique, but I can get through one with a halligan and flat head axe in no time.


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Most patrol cops have zero training in mechanical breaching, so your experience isn't necessarily relevant here in establishing the potential actions of a "reasonable officer".

I've had a decent amount of training from multiple sources (to include firemen) but don't do it everyday, and I wouldn't make the claim as you. There's a reason that SWAT teams usually have a dedicate breacher who can specialize in that role to maintain proficiency, and there's a reason that firefighters are a common source of instruction for cops looking to learn or improve breaching...I seriously meant what I said earlier that you guys are artists about it, and it's unreasonable to expect a random LEO, especially a patrol cop, to replicate your capability.

[wvincent]

My guess is confused.

Even people on here, a decidedly pro-LE gun forum, usually have no clue what they're talking about when they see cops on the street.

That too easy, they're either murdering or oppressing someone?
That's what I hear, all the time, from MSM and the far left politicos, anyhow. And it sure seems from some of our LE members here that the educators have fully bought into this narrative.

What no has explained yet is, if we defund the police like we're being told we need to, who is going into the school to shoot the active shooter in the face?

The politico's security detail? What's their response time?

[TGS]

That too easy, they're either murdering or oppressing someone?
That's what I hear, all the time, from MSM and the far left politicos, anyhow. And it sure seems from some of our LE members here that the educators have fully bought into this narrative.

Yeah, I mean, I'm shocked that Border Patrol showed up at all. I didn't realize they had enough time in the day between whipping migrants to death and sending babies to concentration camps.

What no has explained yet is, if we defund the police like we're being told we need to, who is going into the school to shoot the active shooter in the face?

The politico's security detail? What's their response time?

Dunno...I'm probably at the hot-dog stand around the corner with my radio's ear piece out of position.

Laugh and all, but SLG has a pretty funny story about a protectee ditching a security detail and an agent saying something to the effect of, "Oh well, 'declination-by-action', not my problem anymore" and proceeding to pull a summer sausage out of his suit and chow down...as if that's a normal thing for people to just carry in their suit.

[LittleLebowski]

To me, it sounds like the Uvalde local cops suffered from the old Mongol adage: “Better an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lion led by a sheep.”

I personally could not live with holding my troops back and the parents when the gunfire was ringing out.

[HCM]

Questions:
1. Was this the first floor?
2. If it was the first floor, no windows to breach into from the outside?
3. Since 2 would make too much sense, I'd guess it was a second floor classroom, but it just seems odd since the initial entry was a propped open 1st floor door, so you figure he hits the first classroom he sees, no?
4. How's it take an hour for the janitor to get keys?
5. WTF is the principal, etc and why do they not have keys?
6. WTF do we just not have a master key at the PD as well or in every cruiser? I get that if there are 9k keys out there, then why have keys, but....just spit balling.

It was on the first floor, No visibility through the windows and you’re not physically entering through a window fast enough to be effective, much less with a shield. Based on the shooter’s reaction when they finally made entry, entering through a window would’ve just let those entering get picked off one at a time.

There’s no timeline one way or the other about how long it took to get the key.

After the failed breach attempt at 11:44 the incident commander who was the school district police chief ordered the “barricaded subject mode.” This continued during the time period from 1215 -12-21 when Bortac arrived and got a rifle rated shield until Bortac made the unilateral decision to go on their own initiative half hour later.

The school district, like many school districts in Texas has their own police department. That’s why it was the school district police chief not the city police chief who was the incident commander. In my experience ISD Police Officers have keys to the schools they are responsible for. That doesn’t necessarily mean they have all the keys for all the schools. If I were looking for a school key in an emergency the janitor or principal (in that order) would be my first thought.

Uvalde ISD police department only has six officers including the chief. At least one of those officers was part of the initial police entry into the school and it would be logical they were part of the 19 officers in the hallway.

One of those five remaining officers was the husband of one of the teachers who was killed. While that guy would be extremely motivated, in the real world if the shooter is in the classroom where the spouse of one of your guys works that guy is getting pulled out.

[Caballoflaco]

To me, it sounds like the Uvalde local cops suffered from the old Mongol adage: “Better an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lion led by a sheep.”

I personally could not live with holding my troops back and the parents when the gunfire was ringing out.

The parents thing makes sense. A school full of screaming parents looking for their kids isn’t going to help anything in a situation like this.

[Risto]

On my group we frequently spitballed breaching school doors with a cruiser. Not always applicable but very frequently may be an option.

[JodyH]

Don’t play f***ing semantics with me.

This situation required getting in immediately and being ready to fight and kill the subject immediately. What you were suggesting would not do that. All it would do was telegraph your intentions and give the shooter a green light to run up his body count before you kill him.

There’s a lot of f***ing issues here But the fact that nobody started wacking away on the door with a fire ax is not one of them.

Semantics? Fuck you.
I quoted you verbatim, not my fault you were imprecise with your terminology.

You actually think this shooter needed a green light to run up his body count?
LOL

I say the Police beating on the fucking door with an axe would have taken his focus off the kids and put it on the door.

[TGS]

On my group we frequently spitballed breaching school doors with a cruiser. Not always applicable but very frequently may be an option.

This was an internal door to a classroom, dude.

[Redhat]

I've been following this as best as I can but due to the changing information presented at the press conferences, I still have a few questions:

1. Was 911 called when he shot his grandmother? In one briefing I heard the first LE response was to that location.

2. If the first rounds he fired were at the people from the funeral home when he crashed the truck, did those people call 911?

3. Was it the SRO who was first on scene at the school? They said he went past the shooter and contacted a teacher who was outside the school but what did he do then?
Was the SRO supposed to be on the school grounds or just patrolling the area near the school?

4. If the shooter was firing rounds at the school from the parking lot area, did anyone hear it and react?

5. What happened to the teacher who propped the door open? That part of the briefing was confusing to me.

6. Were there exterior windows on the classrooms the shooter entered?