Active Shooter Uvalde TX Elementary School

[TGS]

Did someone in this thread say that? Because I don't remember seeing it but it's a long thread and I might have missed it.

There's an overwhelming seething nature from lots of these posts that everyone there was a coward, including yours, which that obviously hyperbolic sentence is meant to convey.

I'm sure you knew that though.

[AMC]

Good job- keeping emotionally involved guy out. Flip side- if I was that guy I’d go in, or have to be stopped up to being killed? ?

I think this is the last time I'm engaging this thread. Too easy to lose context and misconstrue intent.

Apparently, the officer in question was CLEARLY emotionally compromised, and other officers feared he might self harm. Not everyone has equal experience dealing with catastrophic emergencies, regardless of profession or training. Especially if a loved one is involved. I agree with what @Sensei wrote that sometimes you just have to step up and do what's called for. Maybe the party kicks off while you're out somewhere with loved ones. It's a shit sandwich but you gotta take a bite 'cause like the good doctor said, you're the only one there with the tools and talent.

All that said, I totally understand the officers' desire to be there and 'do something'. He also had a totally reasonable expectation that the other cops would step up. It turned out to be an unfounded belief.

I've been involved in a lot of critical incidents, and I've had to make a lot of scary, sometimes rather quick decisions. You get better with experience and exposure....something which I'm reasonably sure most of those guys didn't have a lot of. If I was involved in something like that, involving a family member, I would understand leaderships desire to keep me out. And if I saw that no one was acting when action was needed.....then yes I would act on my own. And yes......you'd better not get in my fucking way.

I've personally seen 'command level' personnel who were fucking shit up be relieved/replaced by others on scene....including by lower ranks. Decided a long time ago that if I was ever involved in something like that, that it was gonna be easier to ask for forgiveness from the Chief than it would be to ask for forgiveness from God.

Does that make my somewhat nuanced position clearer?

[Casual Friday]

There's an overwhelming seething nature from lots of these posts that everyone there was a coward, including yours, which that obviously hyperbolic sentence is meant to convey.

I'm sure you knew that though.

Ah so you're making things up and attributing statements to people that weren't made, or even implied to try to make your point more valid. They're cowards based on their actions/inactions=I would have Rambo'd the situation is a pretty big leap even for a govt employed order follower such as yourself.

[fixer]

Ah so you're making things up and attributing statements to people that weren't made, or even implied to try to make your point more valid. They're cowards based on their actions/inactions=I would have Rambo'd the situation is a pretty big leap even for a govt employed order follower such as yourself.

Par for the course.

[Eric_L]

I think this is the last time I'm engaging this thread. Too easy to lose context and misconstrue intent.

Apparently, the officer in question was CLEARLY emotionally compromised, and other officers feared he might self harm. Not everyone has equal experience dealing with catastrophic emergencies, regardless of profession or training. Especially if a loved one is involved. I agree with what @Sensei wrote that sometimes you just have to step up and do what's called for. Maybe the party kicks off while you're out somewhere with loved ones. It's a shit sandwich but you gotta take a bite 'cause like the good doctor said, you're the only one there with the tools and talent.

All that said, I totally understand the officers' desire to be there and 'do something'. He also had a totally reasonable expectation that the other cops would step up. It turned out to be an unfounded belief.

I've been involved in a lot of critical incidents, and I've had to make a lot of scary, sometimes rather quick decisions. You get better with experience and exposure....something which I'm reasonably sure most of those guys didn't have a lot of. If I was involved in something like that, involving a family member, I would understand leaderships desire to keep me out. And if I saw that no one was acting when action was needed.....then yes I would act on my own. And yes......you'd better not get in my fucking way.

I've personally seen 'command level' personnel who were fucking shit up be relieved/replaced by others on scene....including by lower ranks. Decided a long time ago that if I was ever involved in something like that, that it was gonna be easier to ask for forgiveness from the Chief than it would be to ask for forgiveness from God.

Does that make my somewhat nuanced position clearer?

Yes. I wasn’t giving you a hard time. (Maybe a little). I was trying to understand your position better. Not try to play gotcha. And I appreciate the reply. I know this is a charged thread. That’s why I’m not offering opinions.

[Sensei]

I think everyone needs to take a breath and read what El Cid just wrote. This thread has devolved into an unhealthy self-aggrandizing dogpile. For both my fellow LEOs and the non-LEO members here, take a moment to breath and ask yourself what you would have done if you arrived on scene as a responding LEO, got into the hallway, and been told by the apparent officer in charge that the shooter is behind a locked steel door and we are unable to breach it. You, as the responding LEO, do not possess any specialized breaching skills or equipment. You are also told that a tactical team is on the way, or that a plan is being formed...something to that effect.

Take a breath and think about that. Often times, "I wUld HAv Tak3n caRe of BUSINESS bekuz I'm n0t a fucking pussy slackjaw f@gg0t COWARD like dem!" is not a terribly realistic assessment of a situation, regardless of however much it strokes your ego behind the keyboard with selective-memory on cherry picked facts to suit your viewpoint.

Granted, it’s been more than a decade, but I seem to recall in my last active shooter training that the response to a barricaded shooter is to continuously challenge the barricade and shooter with whatever tools are available (fire extinguisher, axe, etc). Is that not correct or perhaps has that training changed? Also, is there any public sources for what I’ve bolded?

[blues]

Glad I stayed out of this cluster.

Back to just being gut wrenched.

[camel]

This might be get me flamed. But what a lot of what happened was a failure of first responder to continue to drive to the threat. I can consider the context of stalling at the door. I wouldn’t let necessarily the officer with his wife on my team.
The failure is they had mass. Mass to continue. Damed be the result I get to heaven. But they stalled at the door. This is a learning event. Sad to say.

It’s more a lesson that nobody’s gonna come save me. Sure there’s a lot to digest. But. Nobody continued working the problem. They backed off and then rolled the best tac team they could.

I’m not Le. But all that power standing there could have done something.

[fixer]

The video shows the shooter hitting the door with a volley of fire before going in. It is also a fact that the door was never locked.

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news...ys?context=amp

[UNM1136]

Granted, it’s been more than a decade, but I seem to recall in my last active shooter training that the response to a barricaded shooter is to continuously challenge the barricade and shooter with whatever tools are available (fire extinguisher, axe, etc). Is that not correct or perhaps has that training changed? Also, is there any public sources for what I’ve bolded?

As I sent previously to someone in this thread, in a PM, our job, when the time comes, is TO GET IN THERE...a 10 minute breach sucks, and will cost lives, but you gotta do it... One minute or less would be ideal, but we don't get to choose the time or place, and only have what we brung with us...

I am still highly offended by the response of these "public safety emplyees"...

pat