Active Shooter Uvalde TX Elementary School

[HCM]

[El Cid]

That video is painful beyond words. It made me remember that initiative is infectious. Unfortunately, so is hesitation and indecision.

[HCM]

I have to wonder how long before some action would have been taken if the DHS officers hadn't.

Good question.

San Antonio PD, FBI and DPS SWAT were all rolling that way via mutual aid when the DHS ad hoc team finally put a end to it.

How long it would have taken to apply those resources after their arrival given the ICS cluster fuck that was going on is anyone’s guess

There was still approximately a half hour gap between the DHS guys and the rifle rated shield arriving and the entry.

[LittleLebowski]

Great way to take s**t out of context.

The failure of the officers in that hallway to act doesn’t = Leroy Jenkins was a correct answer either.

The DHS officers who made entry and killed the shooter did so in contravention of the incident commanders orders.

However, they were successful because they made an executed a plan in a deliberate manner as a team.

There is a significant difference between taking deliberate and effective action and a single emotionally distraught and individual with compromised judgement charging in at random. It is always possible to make a situation worse.

As already addressed up thread this isn’t the movies, in the real world an officer having close personal ties to an incident / investigation is always excluded from said action.

I literally don't care if you're offended by my take on things. There is so much wrong with what happened in Uvalde that the entire country should be infuriated and there's a few officers that should never "serve" again.

[LittleLebowski]

That video is painful beyond words. It made me remember that initiative is infectious. Unfortunately, so is hesitation and indecision.

Gotta get that hand sanitizer!

[AMC]

There's a lot of unfortunate talking past each other occurring in this thread. I think everyone agrees that the outcome is a huge ball of suck. I also think everyone with training and experience in this area is LARGELY agreeing on the causes, but perhaps emphasizing different factors. I agree with what @TCinVA said, having been involved in LE training. I also agree with what @HCM has been saying, having seen firsthand that the problems are much more complex and multilayered than just "cowardice". That may indeed be playing into what we saw on that video. But the real problems are much deeper, have been going on for longer, and will be much harder to solve.

As I've said before, everyone wants Delta Seal Team Ninja to fastrope from a Blackhawk through the roof within 10 seconds of an active shooter kicking off. But those same people voted for public officials who spent the last 10 years pushing those folks out of LE, and hiring the most diverse group of LE Baristas they could find, and sparing no expense on training them on proper pronoun use and the perils of misgendering the "Justice Involved Citizens" they might encounter in their struggles.

I get @TCinVAs frustration. Believe me. Most folks just don't get how 'Not Gun People' cops really are. But the degree to which both elected officials and LE leadership ACTIVELY undermine any kind of use of force training would appall you. I have had police command level personnel tell me we should not conduct state mandated Firearms Perishable Skills training because that will encourage officers to see their firearms as potential tools to solve a problem, and "We just really can't have that anymore. That's not what LE does anymore."

I think @HCM is spot on that group dynamics and inertia was a major factor here. And I agree that it's likely some of these folks had no business ever wearing a badge. When I saw the one officer using the hand sanitizer, that looked to me like someone who's mind was recoiling from the horror in front of him, and seeking comfort in a 'safety ritual' that he's accustomed to.

I get being appalled and outraged by what happened here. But after years of many of us on here warning about the state of LE recruiting, training, and policies......how is anybody actually surprised?

[UNM1136]

I get being appalled and outraged by what happened here. But after years of many of us on here warning about the state of LE recruiting, training, and policies......how is anybody actually surprised?

Couldn't like 10x more, so quoterd...

pat

[Sensei]

This type of thing happens all of the time on the acute care side of medicine. Things aren’t unfolding exactly as expected and previously experienced, so people become paralyzed by the fear of criticism if they act and are wrong. They do nothing or focus on the appearance of doing important things rather than take an action that changes the trajectory of the situation. The classic example is a failed airway with a cannot oxygenate/cannot ventilate situation or pericardial tamponade. People will bag and give IV fluids but nobody wants to be first to put a knife to neck or needle to chest. It takes one person to overcome that negative inertia and others fall into line. Typically, the right answer can be found with fundamental actions - the blocking and tackling of whatever discipline is being employed.

[UNM1136]

This type of thing happens all of the time on the acute care side of medicine. Things aren’t unfolding exactly as expected and previously experienced, so people become paralyzed by the fear of criticism if they act and are wrong. They do nothing or focus on the appearance of doing important things rather than take an action that changes the trajectory of the situation. The classic example is a failed airway with a cannot oxygenate/cannot ventilate situation or pericardial tamponade. People will bag and give IV fluids but nobody wants to be first to put a knife to neck or needle to chest. It takes on person to overcome that negative inertia and others fall into line. Typically, the right answer can be found with fundamental actions - the blocking and tackling of whatever discipline is being employed.

One of my first discussions with new recruit officers is "Adult decisions: decide, act, and accept the consequences of your actions like an adult. More than often your respose will be correct, or acceptable; and whether they are acceptable or not they will be survivable, for you..."

pat

[TheRoland]

But those same people voted for public officials who spent the last 10 years pushing those folks out of LE, and hiring the most diverse group of LE Baristas they could find, and sparing no expense on training them on proper pronoun use and the perils of misgendering the "Justice Involved Citizens" they might encounter in their struggles.

This gets said all the time, and I'm willing to get onboard with it generally, but I do not think that cops with thin-blue-line Punisher logos in rural Texas are failing because they are too woke.