Yeah but most of the time it's skill that gets you close enough for luck to play a part.Originally Posted by OlongJohnson
Yeah but most of the time it's skill that gets you close enough for luck to play a part.
You kinda answered your own question...Qualifications may be the only training some cops get, but they ain't really training. They are tests. We go to 25 on the day qual, 15 on the night qual, and those of us who are serious shoot 50-100 regularly. You can drop every round at the 25 and still pass the qual, if all your other shots are righteous.
Most cops are NOT shooters, by any usage of the term...I refer you to the small pond thread elsewhere.
pat
I haven't kept up with DEA, but as of 2000 their 100 round qual included 10 rounds at the 50 yrd line. 3 of those were weak handed.
This ^^^.
While it’s no longer part of our Qual (Test) Locally we have our people do a 50 yard familiarization fire every year. Now that we are issuing red dots we plan to make that a 50/100 fam fire.
The NY Times (whatever) says that an officer had a shot on the killer but didn't take it : https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/17/u...an-police.html
This article https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...uvalde/661295/ basically says the SWAT team push has caused the development of military looking teams and policing but without the military atittude of attacking and accepting causalities.A police officer had a chance to shoot the gunman before he entered a school, according to a chief deputy sheriff. The officer declined to take the shot, fearing injuries to others.
The validity of these articles is out of my lane and only referenced for discussion from the knowledgeable.
Deputy: 2 officers had chance to shoot Uvalde school gunman
https://www.ksat.com/news/national/2...uvalde-police/
UVALDE, Texas – Two Uvalde city police officers passed up a fleeting chance to shoot a gunman outside Robb Elementary School before he went on to kill 21 people inside the school, a senior sheriff's deputy told The New York Times.
That would mean a second missed opportunity for officers to stop Salvador Ramos before the May 24 rampage inside the school that killed 19 children and two teachers. Officials said that a school district police drove past Ramos without seeing him in the school parking lot.
The unidentified officers, one of whom was armed with an AR-15-style rifle, said they feared hitting children playing in the line of fire outside the school, Chief Deputy Ricardo Rios of nearby Zavalla County told the newspaper.
The officers' chance of stopping Ramos passed quickly, perhaps in seconds, Rios said.
Messages from The Associated Press to Rios and the Zavala County Sheriff's Office have not been returned. The Zavala County sheriff's officials responded to the shooting in support of Uvalde and Uvalde County officers.
Rios said he had shared the information with a special Test House committee investigating the school massacre.
Uvalde police officials agreed Friday to speak to the committee investigating, according to a Republican lawmaker leading the probe who had begun to publicly question why the officers were not cooperating sooner.
“Took a little bit longer than we initially had expected," state Rep. Dustin Burrows said.
On Thursday, Burrows signaled impatience with Uvalde police, tweeting that most people had fully cooperated with their investigation “to help determine the facts” and that he didn't understand why the city's police force “would not want the same.” He did not say which members of the department will meet with the committee, which is set to continue questioning witnesses in Uvalde on Monday about the attack that killed 19 students and two teachers.Burrows is spot on here.The state House committee has interviewed more than a dozen witnesses behind closed doors so far, including state police, school staff and school district police. The list of witnesses provided by the committee so far has not included Pete Arrendondo, the Uvalde school district police chief, who has faced criticism over his actions during the attack.
Burrows defended the committee interviewing witnesses in private and not revealing their findings so far, saying its members want an accurate account before issuing a report.
“One person's truth may be different than another person's truth," Burrows said Friday.
And not just in regard to this particular aspect of this incident.,
Whether or not a UPD officer had a fleeting long range shot at the suspect, I’m curious why the chief deputy of the county sheriffs office is choosing to make a public statement about this after testifying before the committee. As far as I know neither the chief deputy nor any Zavala county sheriffs deputies were on scene prior to the suspect entering the school.
It doesn’t mean the chief deputy is necessarily wrong, and Zavala County deputies were among those who did finally breach the classroom and kill the shooter. But I could also see the chief appointed official for an elected official such as a county sheriff having other reasons to want to distance his agency and his boss from the city and school district PDs.
If that did occur, I would want more information about the timing and distance involved. Kids in the background are a very real concern.
My understanding is most UPD AR-15’s ar iron sighted pool guns. If they follow the practices of most departments in the area they are not zeroed to the individual Officer and unless the officer shoots on their own they are shooting / qualifying with the rifle once per year on a full size silhouette.,
Their SWAT guns have older Eo Techs. No idea if the SWAT members are allowed to take those on the road or if they are individually zeroed or if they’re also pool guns.
All that so say we’re not talking snipers here and passing up a shot with children as the backstop may well have been consistent with their training.
Last edited by HCM; 06-18-2022 at 10:38 AM.
The Atlantic article is one of the dumber things I’ve read in some time.
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Didn't say I agreed with it. There is a lot of 'experts' opining out there. I look to p-f for reasoned opinion (for the most part).
Here's an expert 'teacher' opining on why armed teachers are a bad idea:
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/stor...ngs-nra-uvalde
We will shoot the innocent by mistake. We will shoot the up the faculty meeting as some of us are unhinged (but we are allowed to teach - huh?). Might shoot a kid with a toy gun. It's bad morally.
I read in the Peterson book how a teacher hears a shooter, has the kids line up against the wall. The shooter breaches the glass and enters. Hey, the kids are lined up. They get shot. The gun jams so she doesn't.
I suppose the idea that she could have defended the door is alien to this 'teacher'. Better to control guns as if that genie could be put back in the bottle practically or constitutionally.
Burrows defended the committee interviewing witnesses in private and not revealing their findings so far, saying its members want an accurate account before issuing a report.
“One person's truth may be different than another person's truth," Burrows said Friday.Deposition testimony about traumatic events from people who were standing directly side by side as they went through it together can be completely different, simply due to how they have registered the experience and processed the memories over time.
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Not another dime.
There is also a tendency for people who have a partial picture to “fill in the story.”
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