Active Shooter Uvalde TX Elementary School

[Lon]

Withdrawn. Too Angry.

I think there's a different performance standard expected of Police vs. teachers.

I totally agree. But if we are willing to criticize the LE response if it deserves criticism (and I most certainly am), then we must do the same for teachers and school staff. True, they aren’t armed and trained like LE (hopefully) is, but they’re responsible for learning and following safety measures that are in place at their school. I’ve seen plenty of teachers and school staff who think those measures are unnecessary and inconvenient because “it won’t happen here”.

A couple years ago I helped do a Stop the Bleed class for the Career Center I teach at. It was a mandatory in service training. They brought in a bunch of extra instructors for the practical portion so they had plenty of opportunities to do the practical stuff under supervision. Half the teachers were surfing their phones during the lecture portion and at least half of them just left when it was time to do the practical portion.

It’s sad that in 2022, we still haven’t learned that building codes need to be modified to cover active shooter situations in schools. When’s the last mass casualty fire that’s happened in a US school? Yet here we are.

[fixer]

I totally agree. But if we are willing to criticize the LE response if it deserves criticism (and I most certainly am), then we must do the same for teachers and school staff. True, they aren’t armed and trained like LE (hopefully) is, but they’re responsible for learning and following safety measures that are in place at their school. I’ve seen plenty of teachers and school staff who think those measures are unnecessary and inconvenient because “it won’t happen here”.

A couple years ago I helped do a Stop the Bleed class for the Career Center I teach at. It was a mandatory in service training. They brought in a bunch of extra instructors for the practical portion so they had plenty of opportunities to do the practical stuff under supervision. Half the teachers were surfing their phones during the lecture portion and at least half of them just left when it was time to do the practical portion.

It’s sad that in 2022, we still haven’t learned that building codes need to be modified to cover active shooter situations in schools. When’s the last mass casualty fire that’s happened in a US school? Yet here we are.

This. There plenty of lessons to be learned or even re-learned for le side, but the school admins and teachers need to do plenty of reflection as well.

[Borderland]

I totally agree. But if we are willing to criticize the LE response if it deserves criticism (and I most certainly am), then we must do the same for teachers and school staff. True, they aren’t armed and trained like LE (hopefully) is, but they’re responsible for learning and following safety measures that are in place at their school. I’ve seen plenty of teachers and school staff who think those measures are unnecessary and inconvenient because “it won’t happen here”.

A couple years ago I helped do a Stop the Bleed class for the Career Center I teach at. It was a mandatory in service training. They brought in a bunch of extra instructors for the practical portion so they had plenty of opportunities to do the practical stuff under supervision. Half the teachers were surfing their phones during the lecture portion and at least half of them just left when it was time to do the practical portion.

It’s sad that in 2022, we still haven’t learned that building codes need to be modified to cover active shooter situations in schools. When’s the last mass casualty fire that’s happened in a US school? Yet here we are.

Along those same lines;

Disregarding safety protocol was a problem where I worked. It wasn't a school or a LE agency, but we had plenty of safety protocol and standards that needed to be followed. There were several fatalities on job sites where I worked because those weren't followed. On some of the larger construction sites the state had L&I inspectors on site to make sure people were doing what they needed to do to keep everyone safe. They fined people and shut down job sites if the infractions were serious enough. I was cited several times over 30 years but never fined. We had to be certified by the state every year to work on some sites. Just attending the training wasn't good enough because the material was new every year (new regulations) and tests were graded. Phones were not allowed in the training. Funny that our union never objected to any safety training. More flack came from or supervisors over job site safety than the union. I had to point out some misunderstandings about job site safety to management a few times, mostly because they weren't certified and never attended the training. Retribution followed.

One thing I learned a long time ago is safety starts with everyone on site. If you have to call 911 it's too late.

[Duces Tecum]

Deleted . . . was addressed by others while this post was being written.

[CraigS]

I guess I will never understand how 20 officers could stand in a hall while kids were being killed. Who would give a s--- about a chief's assigned incident category when kids are being shot?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/school-sh...fter-columbine

[Glenn E. Meyer]

1. Article on arming teachers - note Politico is not a friendly gun place usually:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...texas-00035794

Only 300 TX teachers in the program.

2. Saw Scott Reitz on ABC News, IIRC - some major news show - saying he didn't understand it and would not have listened to the 'incident' commander and instead gone in. That you would be shot at is part of such incidents, not acceptable as an excuse - IIRC again.

[JRB]

I guess I will never understand how 20 officers could stand in a hall while kids were being killed. Who would give a s--- about a chief's assigned incident category when kids are being shot?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/school-sh...fter-columbine

Columbine happened my Junior year of high school. I remember seeing the live coverage on TV after I got home, and screaming at the TV watching those SWAT guys standing around with Steyr AUG's and body armor outside the school. I wished so badly that I could have been there with my own rifle instead. I couldn't understand it at all.

But then as @Lost River already explained, after I grew up and spent time in an Army uniform I realized these things don't go to shit for a lack of everyone wanting to do something, it was a lack of someone else taking charge. In the heat of the moment people freeze from a lack of direction and clarity. Plenty of others probably know what needs to be done, but don't have the minerals to say F that idiot commander, F the SOP, and be the first guy through the door.

That someone who's willing to take direct action on clarity of morals and duty alone, and be the first one through the door -damn the odds- are breathtakingly rare indeed. It does not help that most LE hiring policies and SOP's are almost directly in opposition of finding those sorts of folks to put behind a badge. As addressed many times by folks much more qualified to speak on it - the public wants an Andy Griffith guidance counselor of impeccable conduct 99% of the time and when the 1% SHTF incident occurs they want a stone cold perfect gunfighter that's magically carrying an ODA's worth of fancy tools and gear with them.

[LHS]

That's a pretty solid illustration of the principle that the sooner you put effective resistance on the threat, the sooner the killing stops. In this case, it stopped before it got a chance to even get started.

Sure, but all it takes is one to be good enough.

Law-Abiding West Virginian Woman With Concealed Firearm Stops A Mass Shooting

Instead of waiting for the police to arrive, a woman with a concealed carry license in West Virginia acted fast to stop a crazed man with an AR-15-style rifle who was about to kill dozens of people at a graduation party.

"Instead of running from the threat, she engaged with the threat and saved several lives last night," Charleston Police Department Chief of Detectives Tony Hazelett told local news WCHSTV.

The incident occurred Wednesday when Dennis Butler,37, was angered by a group of people hosting a graduation party who told him to slow down through an apartment complex in Charleston. He returned 30 minutes later, parked his vehicle, jumped in the backseat, and discharged his weapon toward the group of 30-40 people.

https://wchstv.com/news/local/victim...eston-shooting

[Gun Mutt]

I guess I will never understand how 20 officers could stand in a hall while kids were being killed. Who would give a s--- about a chief's assigned incident category when kids are being shot?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/school-sh...fter-columbine

So very much this.

As a friend from down south once said; if you wanna try to explaining this to me, save your breath for cooling your oatmeal or something.

[Old Man Winter]

I guess I will never understand how 20 officers could stand in a hall while kids were being killed. Who would give a s--- about a chief's assigned incident category when kids are being shot?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/school-sh...fter-columbine

I don't know how anyone reconciles that decision to wait. Maybe you compartmentalize it for a while but it will haunt you for the rest of your life. There's no escaping that decision in this life or the next.