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Thread: To SBR or Not to SBR? That is the question.

  1. #1
    Member Chomps's Avatar
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    To SBR or Not to SBR? That is the question.

    I apologize in advance for my ignorance, Please forgive my Newbisness!

    So,.. I’ve been seriously considering the addition of a PCC to my 9mm arsenal. Something like the CMMG Banshee or a PSA 9mm AR pistol or the like.

    Being new to all this, and not particularly well schooled on any of the potential ATF/NFA minefields I may be about to wander into,.. I thought I’d start here to get what little clarity I can before I make a decision. 😎

    Having my valid CPL, I am aware that for now, (…barring any ATF changes to the pistol brace rules,) purchasing one of those PCC AR style pistols as originally configured with the “Brace.” I would be legal to own, carry, & even conceal it as a pistol.

    I am also aware that a great many of you in the gun/firearm/2A community believe that the ATF may/will/IS About to change that and make ARstyle pistols with a brace illegal.

    With that in mind, I was curious,.. could a person register their AR pistol as an SBR without adding or making any changes to it ahead of time in an effort to preempt or get ahead of any possible changes in the rules that could eventually put them in legal jeopardy?

    And if one DID register their pistol as an SBR,.. if they left it in its original configuration,.. (i.e. with a brace instead of a rifle stock, and no additional accessories like grips or what not). Could it still be legally carried as a “Pistol?” Or would it be the case that once “Registered?” It is forever & always hereafter, Officially a “Rifle” and thereafter no longer Lawfully concealable per my CPL?

    Am I just overthinking the situation? Should a ban on Braces” actually be instituted,.. Would it be simpler (and lawful) to just go ahead & register it as an SBR at that time? Or could I actually be looking at having to forfeit the weapon?

    This is just something I’m pondering as I consider possibly laying out another grand or two to get the Weapon & kit it out. 🤣

  2. #2
    THE THIRST MUTILATOR Nephrology's Avatar
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    I like SBRs. I don't particularly like braces. They feel weird and the hokey legal status thing was always a turn off. I don't travel much out of state with rifles and filling out some paperwork when I finally leave this one is no big deal to me.

    that said AR-15s are always better with two stamps, not just one




  3. #3
    Site Supporter SeriousStudent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chomps View Post
    snip....

    With that in mind, I was curious,.. could a person register their AR pistol as an SBR without adding or making any changes to it ahead of time in an effort to preempt or get ahead of any possible changes in the rules that could eventually put them in legal jeopardy?

    snip....
    I did exactly that for a Centurion Arms AR pistol - I bought it as a AR pistol, registered it with a Form 1, and will eventually get around to swapping the receiver extension and stock. It's now legally an SBR, and does not cross state lines without the correct paperwork. I also do not allow it out of my legal possession, as it is an SBR on a trust. I'm the only one on that trust.

    And once you register it as an SBR, it is an SBR unless you modify the barrel length by swapping upper receiver groups.

    Want to take it over a state line? Then push out two pins, attach a 16" upper. Don't have the upper with you that has a barrel less than 16".

    If you do decide to permanently return in to a non-NFA configuration the BATFEIEOU asks you to notify them so it may be removed from the registry. I have never taken an item off the registry, but would send registered letter with delivery confirmation if I did.

    NOTE: I am not a lawyer, I'm not your lawyer, I'm sum dood on the Interweb, this is not legal advice, consult your own attorney, 20 years in jail would suck.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter ccmdfd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephrology View Post
    I like SBRs. I don't particularly like braces. They feel weird and the hokey legal status thing was always a turn off. I don't travel much out of state with rifles and filling out some paperwork when I finally leave this one is no big deal to me.

    that said AR-15s are always better with two stamps, not just one



    +1,
    and nice rigs!

  5. #5
    Site Supporter ccmdfd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriousStudent View Post

    NOTE: I am not a lawyer, I'm not your lawyer, I'm sum dood on the Interweb, this is not legal advice, consult your own attorney, 20 years in jail would suck.
    Yeah, be certain to learn your State's laws regarding SBR's as well as braced pistols.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chomps View Post
    I apologize in advance for my ignorance, Please forgive my Newbisness!

    So,.. I’ve been seriously considering the addition of a PCC to my 9mm arsenal. Something like the CMMG Banshee or a PSA 9mm AR pistol or the like.

    Being new to all this, and not particularly well schooled on any of the potential ATF/NFA minefields I may be about to wander into,.. I thought I’d start here to get what little clarity I can before I make a decision. 😎

    Having my valid CPL, I am aware that for now, (…barring any ATF changes to the pistol brace rules,) purchasing one of those PCC AR style pistols as originally configured with the “Brace.” I would be legal to own, carry, & even conceal it as a pistol.

    I am also aware that a great many of you in the gun/firearm/2A community believe that the ATF may/will/IS About to change that and make ARstyle pistols with a brace illegal.

    With that in mind, I was curious,.. could a person register their AR pistol as an SBR without adding or making any changes to it ahead of time in an effort to preempt or get ahead of any possible changes in the rules that could eventually put them in legal jeopardy?

    And if one DID register their pistol as an SBR,.. if they left it in its original configuration,.. (i.e. with a brace instead of a rifle stock, and no additional accessories like grips or what not). Could it still be legally carried as a “Pistol?” Or would it be the case that once “Registered?” It is forever & always hereafter, Officially a “Rifle” and thereafter no longer Lawfully concealable per my CPL?

    Am I just overthinking the situation? Should a ban on Braces” actually be instituted,.. Would it be simpler (and lawful) to just go ahead & register it as an SBR at that time? Or could I actually be looking at having to forfeit the weapon?

    This is just something I’m pondering as I consider possibly laying out another grand or two to get the Weapon & kit it out. 🤣
    Even if ATF allows switching back and forth between pistol and SBR, the question of whether you can still carry it as a pistol under your state CPL it would have to be answered at the stage level.

    Your state NRA affiliate organization would be a good place to start.

    Michigan Rifle & Pistol Association

    PO Box 71
    Marshall, MI 49068-0071
    Phone: 269-781-1223
    Website: www.michrpa.org

    Gary Duda, Vice President
    Email: keduda@frontier.com

  7. #7
    Site Supporter SeriousStudent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccmdfd View Post
    Yeah, be certain to learn your State's laws regarding SBR's as well as braced pistols.
    Absolutely!

    I have a "50-sattes-legal" rifle, shotgun and pistols kit, as do most of you folks that travel.

  8. #8
    Site Supporter SeriousStudent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    Even if ATF allows switching back and forth between pistol and SBR, the question of whether you can still carry it as a pistol under your state CPL it would have to be answered at the stage level.

    Your state NRA affiliate organization would be a good place to start.

    As always, you give wise counsel, good sir!

    OP - HCM has a superb point. Don't forget to check intermediate stops or places you may go through. I avoid the entire state of New Jersey; and cities like Chicago, San Francisco, Oakland, Portland, Seattle and New York City due to the onerous burdens they place on their lawful residents.

  9. #9
    Member Chomps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriousStudent View Post
    Absolutely!

    I have a "50-states-legal" rifle, shotgun and pistols kit, as do most of you folks that travel.
    Ok,.. I’m definitely curious! What are the specs for your “50 states Legal” pew stick. 😎
    (…and pics would b cool if ya got em!)😁

  10. #10
    Likes 10.3 & 11.5 barrels Casual Friday's Avatar
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    If a brace gives you some sort of advantage, like being able to transport it loaded in a vehicle under your CPL, then I think they have their place.

    If you just don't want to spend $200 or you don't have $200 to spare, they are a viable option.

    If you think a brace is resisting tyranny and you're not gonna pay $200 for a permission slip, you may want to rethink your reasoning because braces are legal and in full compliance with the NFA. So you're still kneeling to the crown, just on the opposite knee.

    They give you a way to actually run a short AR prior to filing a form 1 and while you wait for it to be approved. Running a bare tube on a short AR sucks ass.

    The worst stock is better than the best brace.

    SBR means you don't have to worry about any arbitrary OAL, length of pull, or AFG/VFG nonsense that nobody can seem to agree what the rules actually are.

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