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Thread: The Handgun Carousel Ride, Intervention Needed!

  1. #31
    Site Supporter Elwin's Avatar
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    Thereís a lot of good here so Iíll just add one thing from personal experience. Others are right that if you want to choose based on performance, you need to have an objective measure of it. Iíd recommend making that comparison using some drill or exercise that makes you think about non-shooting things with the gun in your hands so that you have to divert brain power away from running the gun. This may tell you that one gun or the other ďclicksĒ for you. The Casino Drill comes to mind but there are multiple options.

    I had an experience along these lines after working very diligently on getting proficient with a trio of P99s, then just shooting a 1911 for fun. I performed equally with both, but getting that level of performance with the P99 took A LOT of conscious, focused effort on every detail of what I was doing with the pistol, and the 1911 (the pistol I ďgrew up onĒ) took way less. For one thing, this is good because if I have to use the gun under stress, I hopefully have more brainpower to devote to the problem and can run the gun sufficiently at a subconscious level.

    On top of that, after switching, I do not need nearly as much live and dry fire to maintain the same level of proficiency. Thatís a huge benefit when life happens. It also keeps me from forming any serious desire to switch or add handguns, since itís likely to be more work in addition to more money. Whatever way the 1911 supposedly falls short compared to something else, itís likely not enough to overcome these advantages.

    So work on finding out if any of your options work similarly for you. That, or just go with Glock and be done with it. Thatís probably the one other thing I couldíve done and been perfectly happy with.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by HammerStriker View Post
    LOL @ 5. I am def not dead set on hammer-fired or DA/SA, just kinda of sold on the safety advantages of a heavy/long pull. I will say that it is not fun finding light bearing holsters for the P01 and PX4. The G19 has so many "ready to ship" options readily available, no comparison here.
    Does a weapon mounted light really matter? Seriously. Maybe it does. I tried to justify one and no where in my life was one needed.

    Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jh9 View Post
    Sure. The issued configuration sucks. Sorry they foisted that on you. The fiddled with configurations available (blue hammer spring, light FPB spring) are close enough to a non-stacking DAO revolver / SIG 250 / Beretta 92D to be comparable. And since the 92D is almost entirely out of production (if not entirely) as is the 250 there aren't a lot of "light DAO" options out there. Modified LEM is it if you want that plus "still supported" and "made by a company that doesn't suck".

    I'm aware this is the den of LEM users who have all more or less moved on. (It's where I got most of this LEM info to begin with.) That doesn't mean it isn't still fit for purpose once you factor chasing splits out of the equation.
    I shot the V1 and V4 TLG mod too. The issue is not just chasing splits but the system itself seems to almost encourage anticipation in poor trigger control. The LEM like other short DAO guns was an attempt at a hardware solution for a software problem.

    We followed the LEM with the DAK trigger which is even slower and sucks even more. I would go back to the DAO Beretta over either of those options.

    The other factor is there is not much support for the HK guns in general or the LEM in particular, Especially now that Cbp, the largest LEM user has dropped them.

    Iím talking about things like holsters, 22 conversion kits, sight/optic options, blue guns etc.compared to CZ, Beretta or SIG DA/SA guns or striker fired guns.

    Not to mention the OP is in CA and most of the HK USP /USPC line has dropped off the CA roster.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by HammerStriker View Post
    Has anyone else been on and endless quest to find the perfect pistol? How did finally get off of this carousel ride? What action did you pick and why?
    I'm 76 years old. I hopped on the Carousel sometime in the distant past. You can't get off.

    I think it started with my first cap pistol and then I moved to the better Fanner 50 then a Stallion 45 and it hasn't stopped since.

    Enjoy your ride.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwin View Post
    Thereís a lot of good here so Iíll just add one thing from personal experience. Others are right that if you want to choose based on performance, you need to have an objective measure of it. Iíd recommend making that comparison using some drill or exercise that makes you think about non-shooting things with the gun in your hands so that you have to divert brain power away from running the gun. This may tell you that one gun or the other ďclicksĒ for you. The Casino Drill comes to mind but there are multiple options.

    I had an experience along these lines after working very diligently on getting proficient with a trio of P99s, then just shooting a 1911 for fun. I performed equally with both, but getting that level of performance with the P99 took A LOT of conscious, focused effort on every detail of what I was doing with the pistol, and the 1911 (the pistol I ďgrew up onĒ) took way less. For one thing, this is good because if I have to use the gun under stress, I hopefully have more brainpower to devote to the problem and can run the gun sufficiently at a subconscious level.

    On top of that, after switching, I do not need nearly as much live and dry fire to maintain the same level of proficiency. Thatís a huge benefit when life happens. It also keeps me from forming any serious desire to switch or add handguns, since itís likely to be more work in addition to more money. Whatever way the 1911 supposedly falls short compared to something else, itís likely not enough to overcome these advantages.

    So work on finding out if any of your options work similarly for you. That, or just go with Glock and be done with it. Thatís probably the one other thing I couldíve done and been perfectly happy with.
    Spot on with the need for an objective measure.

    My baselines are the

    FAST
    Dot torture
    The Super Test
    25 yard B8
    Bill drill

  6. #36
    For you guys with a lot of trigger time behind the LEM I'm curious as to what or why is it so hard to maintain proficiency? Reason for asking is I have a USP 9 LEM full size and find the thing easy to shoot even after a year or two of not touching it. The trigger is long but there's no weight to it, unless maybe there are different versions of the LEM as well. For me it falls somewhere between a striker and a DA/SA. I'm definitely slower with the traditional hammer guns.

    I would probably put more time behind it if I could find good quality left handed duty holsters.

    Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4RNR View Post
    For you guys with a lot of trigger time behind the LEM I'm curious as to what or why is it so hard to maintain proficiency? Reason for asking is I have a USP 9 LEM full size and find the thing easy to shoot even after a year or two of not touching it. The trigger is long but there's no weight to it, unless maybe there are different versions of the LEM as well. For me it falls somewhere between a striker and a DA/SA. I'm definitely slower with the traditional hammer guns.

    I would probably put more time behind it if I could find good quality left handed duty holsters.

    Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
    The LEM was a cool idea. Theoretically it should be easier to use. In actuality it is easier to disturb the sights while pressing the trigger. Anticipatory push seems to be magnified with LEM. If the take up were heavier as in LTT 92 or PX4 heavier, I think it would be easier to shoot.
    "Knowledge is good." Emil Faber, date unknown.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason M View Post
    The LEM was a cool idea. Theoretically it should be easier to use. In actuality it is easier to disturb the sights while pressing the trigger. Anticipatory push seems to be magnified with LEM. If the take up were heavier as in LTT 92 or PX4 heavier, I think it would be easier to shoot.
    If that's the case then I'm just ass backwards! I find weight to be my major issue. The heavier the trigger the harder to shoot.

    Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

  9. #39
    If the gun is going to be used for carry/defense, keep your G19 and add a G26. Those two should serve you well for the rest of your life unless the courts strike down the CA handgun roster and then you can buy something newer like a Gen5 Glock. The 10 round G26 mags are very well vetted and known to be reliable. If you want a full, three-finger grip, get some of the Pearce pinky extension baseplates and add them to the magazines. If the grip texture isnít to your liking, add a Talon grip or get the frame stippled. If youíd rather have a red dot, get the slide milled. Get a good holster or two and a corresponding magazine pouch. Stop worrying about the hardware piece and focus on training with your chosen platform so you improve.

    If itís going to be primarily a competition gun, Iím not familiar enough with which decent competition guns are CA roster compliant. Is the G34 allowed?
    My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4RNR View Post
    For you guys with a lot of trigger time behind the LEM I'm curious as to what or why is it so hard to maintain proficiency? Reason for asking is I have a USP 9 LEM full size and find the thing easy to shoot even after a year or two of not touching it. The trigger is long but there's no weight to it, unless maybe there are different versions of the LEM as well. For me it falls somewhere between a striker and a DA/SA. I'm definitely slower with the traditional hammer guns.

    I would probably put more time behind it if I could find good quality left handed duty holsters.

    Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
    My experience was that the LEM USPc is extremely unforgiving of a less-than perfect trigger stroke or sub-optimal support-hand grip.
    When I was dialed in, I could be quick and accurate on the standards I used. Slip up, and it showed. Take two weeks off from practice, and it showed.
    Diligent practice payed off, but it was still quite a perishable skill.
    When I went back to a good DA/SA trigger for personal use, the LEM time made me better with that gun, and I find that the skills required for the DA/SA gun arenít as perishable, and system is a little more forgiving of minor imperfections in technique.

    In the end, I can, and do, use both guns. I just know my limitations when using the LEM gun. I need to slow down a bit more as range increases, and be more deliberate. But across the board, Iím more confident with the DA/SA.

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