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Thread: The Handgun Carousel Ride, Intervention Needed!

  1. #21
    OP doesn't say if this is just for gaming or if it's a carry gun. Some places in CA still do CCWs I think, so it's hard to tell.

    For gaming, like everyone else says just pick one and put in the time.

    For defense, in CA of all places? That HK LEM he's pondering makes a lot of sense. Bolke's street trigger thread should be mandatory reading for anyone carrying a gun in a place where the prosecution can watch frame by frame and see if the shot broke before or 0.25 seconds after the threat became a non-threat because he dropped the gun or whatever. Yes, it will be slower. Match times if applicable will suffer. It also might keep you out of prison if your A-game isn't 101% on point when your number comes up.

    I cashed out on striker guns and went all in on LEM after having a front row seat to the summer of love in 2020. Pistols are for timmy shit now. Revolvers and PCCs are for gaming. If we're talking about wiping the slate clean (again) and starting over (again) the use case is important. So is the year and the location.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by HammerStriker View Post
    Thank you for sharing your experience, that is great feedback. Yes, the USPs were just removed from the roster here, the P2000s are (for now) still "approved". From what I'm gathering it seems that it is more difficult to become proficient (and maintain proficiency) with LEM than with DA/SA?
    Yes.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jh9 View Post
    OP doesn't say if this is just for gaming or if it's a carry gun. Some places in CA still do CCWs I think, so it's hard to tell.

    For gaming, like everyone else says just pick one and put in the time.

    For defense, in CA of all places? That HK LEM he's pondering makes a lot of sense. Bolke's street trigger thread should be mandatory reading for anyone carrying a gun in a place where the prosecution can watch frame by frame and see if the shot broke before or 0.25 seconds after the threat became a non-threat because he dropped the gun or whatever. Yes, it will be slower. Match times if applicable will suffer. It also might keep you out of prison if your A-game isn't 101% on point when your number comes up.

    I cashed out on striker guns and went all in on LEM after having a front row seat to the summer of love in 2020. Pistols are for timmy shit now. Revolvers and PCCs are for gaming. If we're talking about wiping the slate clean (again) and starting over (again) the use case is important. So is the year and the location.
    Having spend 8 years with an LEM as my primary duty and off duty gun and seeing them enmass as the issued gun for my agency, I.e. “real Timmy shit” LEM still sucks.

    I agree with @YVK. You can get the same people management trigger benefits from a DA/SA while retaining the capacity for higher performance.

  4. #24
    Oh Dremel, Dremel, Dremel JCN's Avatar
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    Jun 2019
    @HammerStriker

    @HCM is spot on with his original post.

    I have a lot of handguns but they’re for “cool / entertainment” and 99% of my handgun rounds are on CZs and P365s now.

    To go along the archer / steel isn’t strong analogy:

    1. I needed something that motivated me to improve as an archer. USPSA was that motivation as I could see standards of accomplishment that were way above my skill and that motivated me to practice.

    2. I needed something that was competitive in class so I picked the common model (CZ Shadow 2). I was shooting an EDC X9 mainly at the time I decided to really work on my skill building.

    3. DASA has distinct advantages for dry training and live firing. Having a resetting trigger helps build strength and smoothness in your trigger press when dry practicing that translates to many different trigger types.

    When picking an ecosystem, I think grip angle is more important than trigger type because that will anchor your index.

    CZ is a nice middle angle between the upright 1911 and sloped Glock. That makes going to either other type of grip angle easier.

    If you like the P01 you could do that for carry and train with a 75B or Shadow 2.

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    I know I’ve shown this before, but here is my noob wife shooting DAO semi, DAO revolver, single action, striker in the same session and doing fine because she practiced good fundamentals in the beginning.



    I hope that might motivate you into working the archer more than the arrow!
    Last edited by JCN; 05-12-2022 at 06:49 AM.
    Currently I’m still within the acceptable dickhead parameter of PF 2017+.

  5. #25
    @HammerStriker

    To be blunt, and I say this because I do this same thing over and over again, you aren’t being honest with yourself about what you “shoot best”. Unless you’re gifted naturally, maybe you get smaller groups at random speeds/targets/distances here and there. But I seriously doubt it’s an honest assessment.
    You “want” to like certain guns because they’re more sexy adds up to nothing. Pick features that actually matter and make sense to your lifestyle, suck it and buy or keep that one. Dry fire for 30 mins 4 times a week. Buy a dry fire book from Stoeger or Anderson. Compete or take a class to get a base on where you’re at skill wise.

    Like I’ve said I’m there with you. I want all the guns. I get into a gun and create a reason it’s not as good for me as X or Y gun. Stick to mostly one platform for a large portion of your work and buy whatever you like for fun on the side. Even that 2nd part is unwise but life is short.

    Try the m&P. It’s striker fired but has a long take up similar ish to the lem. Eventually you won’t even notice it’s there but you will at first. Safety is optional. If you need Dasa pick a cz or beretta or hk/sig and move on.

    I’m a hypocrite as I’m obsessing over a 1911 and a G17 while my m&P is my go to as well as a J frame.

    Pick something. Get holsters mags and such. Get books. Set up a dry fire schedule. Take class or compete.

    For me the situation gets ugly when I shoot live fire less and less (kids and work make it impossible). You get bored. Boredom and stagnation is bad. Makes you think too much. When I’m shooting more I care much less about other platforms and care more about shooting.

  6. #26
    Site Supporter Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    It's a process I hopefully am coming to the end of myself. Up until recently, I was carrying a Colt 9mm 1911. I shoot it well, and it's really really easy to carry. But:
    -I'm not 100% confident in the reliability.
    -It's an expensive gun, so there's reason to worry if it gets used defensively and held as evidence.
    -I want to move into a carry optic eventually, but don't want to have the slide machined.
    -More shots in the mag would be nice.

    I looked at swapping to a HiPower, but most of the same problems apply.

    So, I just got a G5 Glock 19 MOS, with SCD to be my main carry gun.
    -I'm more confident in how reliable it is.
    -It's a pretty common gun and not too expensive.
    -It's got the MOS cut, so I can install an optic if I want to (I'm waiting for the Holosun SCS)
    -I get 15 rounds standard. I could also get a G45 and have the full grip, or even use G17 mags.

    It's not the sexy gun, but they work. Now, I just got to discard looking for new handgun hawtness, and shoot what I got. But I also have 'space' to add another G19, a G45, or a G26 should the gun buying bug strike again.
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
    "I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    Having spend 8 years with an LEM as my primary duty and off duty gun and seeing them enmass as the issued gun for my agency, I.e. “real Timmy shit” LEM still sucks.
    Sure. The issued configuration sucks. Sorry they foisted that on you. The fiddled with configurations available (blue hammer spring, light FPB spring) are close enough to a non-stacking DAO revolver / SIG 250 / Beretta 92D to be comparable. And since the 92D is almost entirely out of production (if not entirely) as is the 250 there aren't a lot of "light DAO" options out there. Modified LEM is it if you want that plus "still supported" and "made by a company that doesn't suck".

    I'm aware this is the den of LEM users who have all more or less moved on. (It's where I got most of this LEM info to begin with.) That doesn't mean it isn't still fit for purpose once you factor chasing splits out of the equation.

  8. #28
    I have a ticket on this ride: 26 handgun transactions since 2013 I think qualifies.

    You just don't know what you don't know. If you are new to guns (me), have the patience of a single-cell organism (me), and/or a passion for overthinking (me), it's an easy trap to fall into. But it's fun, and I enjoy it.

    (Quick synopsis of my LEM experience: Read LEM thread here on PF dozens of times, drank the kool aid, purchased P30SK LEM V1 for carry. This was at the same time I was attempting to learn how to shoot USPSA Production with a VP9. I took my first significant CCW class (Tom Givens) with the LEM. Hoo boy. It sucked. I learned I did not/do not have the skills to manage both a LEM 1" trigger press, and 1/4" SFA press concurrently, so I sold both and bought a Glock 19 and a 26, both with SCDs.)

  9. #29
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    While I kind of subscribe to archer arrow theory, a good arrow helps, as I can attest with my CZ SAO Shadow 2. Just unreal free hand 25 yard groups, and better yet the closer in. I am guilty of the same thing handgun ADD, I will get one and try it out, trade it. I couldn’t possibly afford to just keep them all nor would I have room. I do like trying different ones and I have learned a lot. Just recently tried the Delta G2 M. Nice little gun, super slim, great ergos, but the trigger stings or irritates my finger after just 25-30 rounds. So, I am now gonna try a canik.

    Good luck on your quest.

  10. #30
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    I will start with I just plain love guns in general. Some view as tools and nothing more and I get it, but that is not me.

    I went through this for years a while back. When I first got into handguns, I went all Glock only. This was during the Gen 3 years. I could not shoot them good at all, but refused to try anything else. I learned the grip was actually too big for my hand a few years later. Then I found the M&P Gen 1 and could shoot it much better than the Glock and went all in. I then tried an FN FNS9 and was suprised at how much better I could shoot it. So, I went all in on the FNS. Then it was the P320 and I went all in. Somewhere in there I tried Walther PPQ with the paddle release and really liked it. Then came CZ with the P07 & P09 and they really had my attention. Then the M&P M2.0 came out and I thought about going back to the M&P. At this point I had so many handguns that I considered my main handguns it was not good. Throughout all of this I was mainly carrying an M&P Shield 9 and that never changed.

    At this point I stopped and realized I needed to focus on one handgun platform. So, first choice was striker or DA/SA and I decided DA/SA was the way I was going. So, I sold off all my P320s (minus an M17), all Walthers, all FNS, Glocks and M&Ps. I duplicated my P09s to have a training and main handgun. Stocked up on parts, mags and got all holsters I needed and moved forward. When Ernest came out with the Elite LTT, I could not help myself and got one. I had a meh attitude from my expereince with the M9 in the Army and it ignited my love for the 92 and I have built a system around the LTT as well. A plus with the 92 over the CZ P07/P09 is parts / gear are available everywhere and mags are cheaper. I have thought about consolidating on the 92 now because of that now.

    I did group some other guns as collectors / fun guns and I kept some of those, but did not build a sytem around them. So, good luck with whatever path forward you go with. Lots of great information in this thread.
    Last edited by claymore504; 05-12-2022 at 07:54 AM.

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