Originally Posted by HCM
I am not the YouTube guy. I picked that as my PF handle because I like both hammer and striker fired guns...no connection to any YouTube channel. Wonder if I am allowed to change my profile name here? Might be the best thing to do to avoid confusion.
I would do the financial calculus of whichever one you have the most stuff for + would cost you the least to switch over to barring some total anatomic incompatibility with a particular make of firearm (eg my tiny elf hands and Beretta 92s)
Honestly at the end of the day it's just a question of which nits to pick, in my opinion the most persuasive are the financial ones. In particular I would highlight the advent of handgun reflex optics as being a significant, paradigm-shifting development in the history of the handgun. For this reason I would encourage you to steer towards a platform that will most painlessly/inexpensively facilitate this when you inevitably make the plunge in this direction. Generally this favors the plastic striker guns
The rest of your observations are fairly alien to me as I just pick up a handgun and its a glock and I shoot it. I don't worry about the grip angle or the trigger or the controls because it's the only kind of handgun I've shot for almost a decade and it is instantly familiar to me, like getting behind the wheel of my car. The emotional attachment piece is why I keep my nice old S&Ws, but none of the modern service handguns really feel especially sentimental to me.
Common enough request that have a thread for that:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ging-User-Name
Good point on the optics, however CGW, CZC and a few others can mill the P01 slide. LTT can mill the PX4. Tons of places to mill the Glock. More expensive to mill the PX4, less expensive to mill the Glock and CZ. I'm guessing the MOST expensive to mill would be a HK P2000. Since I'm in CA I cannot buy an optics ready striker fired pistol without paying a hefty premium, it'd cost less to mill.
Ah If you're in california given 10rd mag stuff might make more sense to go with the CZ, I have had less than ideal experiences with ban state 10rd glock magazines (excepting those of native 10rd capacity eg G43x/48, g26, g30, etc)
This may have changed recently however, not up to date on new production 10rd glock 9mm mags
Bonus question first. No despite extensive use of HK USPC /P2000 variants at work I’ve not heard of any complaints about pinching
Re choosing:
Feelings lie but Timers and targets do not.
If you don’t have a shot timer buy that before any new guns.
Pick a couple accuracy centric drills and a couple speed centric drills and running them with all three guns.
Using an objective rather than subjective basis for your decision is a good first step towards getting serious about shooting performance.
There are lots of guns I would like to work for me, but they don’t. For example, the P2000 LEM is a gun I really wanted to work for me, but the effort it took to just be decent was extensive. The P226 DAK works for me but it’s out of production and SIGs QC is questionable.
Point being, pick a reliable platform and shoot it enough that you are able to work around the gun’s peculiarities. If you make a change, only do it because it truly makes sense to do, not because your current gun is boring or imperfect. All guns will eventually be boring and imperfect.
There will always being something better out there, but if you force yourself to stick with a quality platform you will be happier in the long run.
Totally want to pin things down to a quality platform. Feel like I'm making steps towards picking a gun to invest more time/money into.
What was it about the LEM trigger that made it difficult to shoot compared to other triggers? People here keep saying it is hard to become proficient with it, but when I shot the rental I actually quite liked the trigger. Feels kind of like a hybrid DAO/Striker. I shot the pistol stationary and wasn't timing myself, but did bust own double taps and pick the pace up a bit...felt pretty good. I may get shredded for saying this, but I'm skeptical that it is really that difficult to get good with a LEM. Is the LEM trigger really any more difficult than the DA/SA transition with TDA semi autos? Seems like the LEM would be the easier of the two to "master", isn't this why H&K designed the trigger system in the first place...to eliminate the "two different trigger pulls" that so many complain about, while preserving the safety feature of a long pull?
It’s hard for me to explain. Maybe I over thought the process of shooting it, but the feel was so different that I just couldn’t get use to it with any kind of speed. That’s been years ago so maybe I would do better now.
Just because it doesn’t work for some doesn’t mean it wouldn’t work for you, but DA/SA was much easier for me to shoot well.
Before I go in the weeds on the LEM, one of the first things steps to becoming proficient with the Dea/Sa trigger is to stop thinking of having two different trigger pulls. Since both break in the same spot you will get much better results thinking of them as all the same based on where the trigger breaks.
That leads to stupidity like people talking about firing the first shot off into the ground to get to the “good “trigger pull.”
When you shot the LEM were you just plinking with no time pressure? At what distance ?
I could shoot a great slow fire group with an LEM trigger but the practical application for pistols always has time as a factor.
If all you were going to do was slow fire from a static position on the range it would be fine. However, when time pressure is applied the LEM doesn’t do well. Not just with shot to shot splits but with time to first shot.
The LEM was based on research which indicated that the length of a trigger pole was more significant than the weight in reference to unintended discharges. The problem with that is These are situations where either the shooter never should’ve had their finger on the trigger in the first place or an involuntary response such as sympathetic grip. An example of that would be someone with a pistol in one hand who slips and falls and then tries to grab a handrail to break their fall with the other hand. The reflexive grip with one hand causes the other hand to also grip due to an involuntary sympathetic response. When that happens they are generating 50 to 60 pounds of force or more, so the length and the weight of the trigger pull is not going to prevent anything.
The LEM has a long but light take up followed by a wall with a heavier trigger pull. Many people try to take up the slack and then shoot from the wall also known as staging which essentially encourages you to anticipate / smash the trigger under time pressure. To shoot the LEM reasonably well you need to pull continuously through the trigger pole like a revolver. In fact shooting a double action revolver was the only other form of shooting that seem to assist with becoming proficient with the LEM.
If you’re issued an LEM, and it is your only choice can you make it work? Yes but is it optimal? No.
Going back to running DA/SA trigger I strongly recommend watching Ernest Langdons 3 YouTube videos titled “fear not the double action shot.”
Last edited by HCM; 05-14-2022 at 09:41 PM.
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