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Thread: EDC Handheld Light - What's hot, what's not? Surefire preferred.

  1. #61
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    Try boutique - which is how I would have characterized the HDS lights. However I didn't realize I had 15,120 customization options when I ordered. And I totally get where Rob is coming from. I spend a lot of time looking at different options for things like lights, knives, watches, all the things we like to go down the rabbit hole on but the truth is that for most of those things, the main stream options are not just easier but they function just as well too. It can be really, really satisfying to find the one product that ticks all of my boxes and is just a joy to use (the HDS light is one of those products for me) but it's an exercise in entertainment as much as in filling a need.

  2. #62
    In Lead... RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post

    What defines “bespoke” in the tactical light fixture world, if not that?
    Volume probably has nothing to do with bespoke to flashlight geeks.

    It's 1) the ability to specify features. 2) That the light is manufactured (not assembled) after ordering.

    By virtue of points 1 and 2 volume is low.

    Cloud has only a few options to choose from. Head-type (basically flood vs throw), battery type (18650 or 18350), color. The lights are mix and match and your selected options are screwed together, boxed, and shipped. Wait times are measured in about 4-days. They could just as easily assemble and list the four models you can select in each color and name them different models and you select the model on the website. It would be the same as Surefire or Streamlight then.

    By contrast HDS, Prometheus, etc - You specify the LED, battery type, body and head finish, tail switch type, tail switch color, pocket clip color and format, and they come with info cards on voltage inputs/outputs measurement specs, etc. and lead teams are measured in months to years for delivery.

    I can see your point that the volume isn't there for Cloud vs Surefire. Flipside, Surefire is 5-10 years behind in terms of light development. We've pretty much realized plug in-rechargeable lights are a no go for real use. But also CR123s suck, because rechargeable ones are inconsistent. The 18650 and 18350 are the best batteries in terms of reliability, cell protection, life. The fact that Surefire has drug its feet to match that reality makes it increasingly irrelevant as a brand.
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    I can see your point that the volume isn't there for Cloud vs Surefire. Flipside, Surefire is 5-10 years behind in terms of light development. We've pretty much realized plug in-rechargeable lights are a no go for real use. But also CR123s suck, because rechargeable ones are inconsistent. The 18650 and 18350 are the best batteries in terms of reliability, cell protection, life. The fact that Surefire has drug its feet to match that reality makes it increasingly irrelevant as a brand.
    Mmm, I really would argue that SureFire simply targets different demographics than Modlite or Cloud Defensive. Rechargeable batteries are great for the enthusiast, but for institutional users, primary cells are probably still the simpler way to do things. Despite all the hubbub about the newer manufacturers, they still have very few institutional users, while SureFire still has plenty of IDIQ contracts open with various entities. I think SureFire still remains the easy button in many ways, even if it no longer retains the performance crown, that SureFire might be getting wary of the upstarts, but for now, I think their dominance over the market (I would imagine that institutional users buy boatloads more WMLs than enthusiasts) is only really challenged by Streamlight.

  4. #64
    Site Supporter Irelander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thy.Will.Be.Done View Post
    This is what I just bought for my EDC light after carrying an original 6P (mostly in backpack) for years. It checks a lot of boxes, without going into detail I'd say just check the video out and see if you can find something else out there that has a better pedigree for what you want out of it.



    https://haleystrategic.com/shop/hard...ion-tools/d3ft
    How is battery life with this light? I can't seem to find those specs.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Probably not MOAR enough for modern gunfighters, but I’ve got several of these and love them.*.

    Streamlight 66608 250 Lumen MicroStream USB Rechargeable Pocket Flashlight

    I suppose those of us that were around when Surefire came on the scene and were brighter than a Maglight at 1/10th the size are easily impressed.

    The coyote version starts high and goes to low with a double-click, and the black starts low and goes to high with a double click. I’m told the former is more tactical, and I prefer the latter (after owning both). I like that they are usb charging, after having used the previous non-rechargeable version for quite some time.

    *I had to put an asterisk here (and it’s what made me click on the thread to begin with), my oldest one seems to be having issues. I can’t replicate the failure, but it kind of winks out from time to time. Mind you, it’s been through the wash, several times, dropped in pools and ponds, etc. but it has me light-curious to want to follow the thread.
    I have the coyote version and really like it. Two points: Charge time is 4 hours. There's no indication that recharging is needed except light becomes dimmer. The Amazon price is a super deal. The company is said to have superb customer service.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Default.mp3 View Post
    Mmm, I really would argue that SureFire simply targets different demographics than Modlite or Cloud Defensive. Rechargeable batteries are great for the enthusiast, but for institutional users, primary cells are probably still the simpler way to do things. Despite all the hubbub about the newer manufacturers, they still have very few institutional users, while SureFire still has plenty of IDIQ contracts open with various entities. I think SureFire still remains the easy button in many ways, even if it no longer retains the performance crown, that SureFire might be getting wary of the upstarts, but for now, I think their dominance over the market (I would imagine that institutional users buy boatloads more WMLs than enthusiasts) is only really challenged by Streamlight.
    I would agree, CR123 are awesome, don’t suck and are probably the best choice for professional users. I have a Modlites and previously Surefire that uses the 18650 on my work gun and they are superior but they were the DF versions because relying on rechargeables 100% is a no go for me. Nearly everything I carry at work takes CR123 (NV, thermals, handhelds, headlamps, WML, etc…), I have to put new batteries in devices a lot, they are fairly universal in the “tactical stuff” world for power supplies. If you’ve ever been on a hunt for an armed dude and needed to swap to fresh batteries in multiple devices and ran out you’ll appreciate the convenience of being able to ask a teammate for a battery or be able to hand fresh ones to your backup. Rechargeables are awesome but being able to go down to the supply closet and grab a box or 4 of CR123 that I can use and toss in a fresh set because I don’t remember if I’ve recharged my battery lately or if my backups are freshly charged is a must for those of us that work primarily at night.

    There is a trade off between performance (the current batch of lights are definitely better powered by the common rechargeable cells but performance is not everything when you are out working at night for a living…convenience and compatibility are huge drivers for me and a lot of guys I know who are out in the dark every day.

    That all being said I’ve been carrying a single function Malcoff EDC of duty for a while now and it is a very capable little light and extremely well built here in the USA which is important to me.
    Last edited by TCB; 05-16-2022 at 12:59 AM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Irelander View Post
    How is battery life with this light? I can't seem to find those specs.
    I would think that it's 1 hour, as rated by SureFire; that light seems to me to be nothing more than a lightly externally modified KE1 head (what goes on current gen M300Cs) with a special body designed for HSP.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Irelander View Post
    How is battery life with this light? I can't seem to find those specs.
    Packaging shows run time is 1 hour, I haven't verified this firsthand though.

  9. #69
    I’ve come to the conclusion that, for the most part, a light you use for defense, paired with a gun or just for disorienting and running or striking, is possibly a different light than your regular edc light for work (depending on what you do). For me at work momentary unless you twist a cap and a tail to get constant and 5 vs 800 lumens with another twist, is quite annoying. For defense, great, leave it on high and momentary.

    I’m often looking inside walls or behind things in darkness so I can fish out wires. 800 or more lumens is too much. 5 is often too little. Waiting for a Malkoff to step down to 100 is annoying. Both are fine for defense just not for my work.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Default.mp3 View Post
    Mmm, I really would argue that SureFire simply targets different demographics than Modlite or Cloud Defensive. Rechargeable batteries are great for the enthusiast, but for institutional users, primary cells are probably still the simpler way to do things. Despite all the hubbub about the newer manufacturers, they still have very few institutional users, while SureFire still has plenty of IDIQ contracts open with various entities. I think SureFire still remains the easy button in many ways, even if it no longer retains the performance crown, that SureFire might be getting wary of the upstarts, but for now, I think their dominance over the market (I would imagine that institutional users buy boatloads more WMLs than enthusiasts) is only really challenged by Streamlight.
    Maybe, but some reasons why I got modlite and cloud lights were because surefire not only had inferior performance, but their dual fuel lights have lots of reported issues with cr123's.

    I think 18650s are superior to cr123's, and you can always carry more 18650s.

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