I Suck

[Guerrero]

I went to the range for the first time in two years.

I sucked.

During the intervening time, I had been doing some dry fire on a double action revolver to work on good trigger presses, and I thought I had made some good progress.

I get to the range, and I put 50 rounds through said revolver, and I was all over the place at 5 yards on a B-8.

I switched to my PX4CC and tried out a Dot Torture; I scored a 28.

But, then I broke out a timer and did a 5x5. All hits well inside, I was just a little slow. What the hell? When I go slow, I'm all over, when I go fast, I'm better.

Part of this is I know I need professional coaching on my grip.

[Clusterfrack]

@Guerrero, great reminder of how perishable handgun skills are. I’m not surprised by the difference you observed between timed and untimed drills. When the conscious mind gets involved, it can call up all sorts of issues.

As you said, a coach is the way to go. Grip is fundamental, but there are many reasons for missing what you want to hit. See below:

"Rapid fire drills like Doubles, Bills and Hammers". I guessed that was part of it. In my experience, pushing down on the gun as or just before it fires is a vastly more common reason for misses, unless you're going for small, far targets. This is especially true when timing the gun, and trying to shoot fast splits. When I push, it's often from the support hand side, probably because of the greater grip pressure causing tension on that side.

I really need to change my sigline to: You don’t really graduate from certain problems or certain things… like you always have to work on not pushing the gun down before it fires. GM-level shooters still deal with this, because you have to return the gun after it fires and when you're trying to time this for fast splits, sometimes the timing is off.

Once you can tell whenever you're pushing down on the gun, you can begin solving the problem. I like using high-speed video to diagnose, and Hwansik's Measurement Drill is a good way to get that under control.

Here's something I wrote in another post:
There are many reasons for a miss, and only one of them is trigger mechanics:

1. Trigger mechanics: trigger pull moves sights off target
2a. Recoil control: arms move sights off target in an attempt to control recoil
2b. Recoil timing: you attempt to time the recoil cycle of the gun, but press the trigger at the wrong time.
3a. Transition timing: you pull off the target before the gun is finished shooting it, or shoot before the gun has arrived on target
3b. Transition damping: your transition wasn't 'critically damped', and you overshoot the target.
4a. Sight alignment: sights misaligned
4b. Sight placement: sights aligned but aimed wrong (usually looking at the wrong place on the target)
5. Vision: focus or eye dominance. Looking at the sights through the wrong eye.

[WDR]

While not a substitute for a real live coach, I've found shooting with lasers and/or dot sights has helped me considerably. Instant feedback, even in dryfire.

Also, sometimes it's just a bad day. I can usually shoot some decent strings at the 25 yard line, and keep most of my shots in the black of a B8. Last Friday I went to the range, and after shooting some really nice groups with a new .22 rimfire rifle at 50 yards, pulled out my carry gun, and a Buckmark, drug the target stand back to 25, and promptly sprayed bullets everywhere on the paper. It was embarrassingly bad. Buckshot from 50 yards bad. I honestly have no idea what happened.

I suck too.

Make more time to go to the range. Dry practice. Shoot with a purpose in mind. Sometimes if you are having a real bad day, it better to pack it in and not build on bad habits.

[Bigguy]

I went to the range for the first time in two years.

I sucked.

During the intervening time, I had been doing some dry fire on a double action revolver to work on good trigger presses, and I thought I had made some good progress.

I get to the range, and I put 50 rounds through said revolver, and I was all over the place at 5 yards on a B-8.

I switched to my PX4CC and tried out a Dot Torture; I scored a 28.

But, then I broke out a timer and did a 5x5. All hits well inside, I was just a little slow. What the hell? When I go slow, I'm all over, when I go fast, I'm better.

Part of this is I know I need professional coaching on my grip.

Here is my issue. I lost my well paying job and dropped out of my gun club. (Couldn’t afford it.) It’s been a-couple of years sine I’ve gone to the range. I needed something too float me for about 15 months until I could collect full SS retirement.
I took my Level III security class, which involved qualifying at the range. I was one of four students, the other three were retired LEO.
Mine was the best target after the Quals. (I’ve got photos, but don’t care to look them up unless challenged.)
But here is the thing. The instructor made it clear that this was NOT a timed shot. I’ve always been a bit if a natural with firearms. I was raised in the country, hunting for food, by a retired Green Brett.
But here’s the thing. It took me twice as long to finish the round at the quals. It didn't matter for score as it wasn’t timed..
All three LEO’s drew and fired at the same measured rate that feels to me like a balance between accuracy and speed. I imagine that it would be the same response in a real, LEO involved, gun fight.
I SERIOUSLY doubt I’d be as effective as those guys when hostile bullets were being sent my way. I’m pretty sure that punching holes in paper targets is very different from confronting an armed bad guy shooting at you.

[willie]

Dry firing before a mirror at 7 yards is helpful. When I taught shooting, I discouraged long practice sessions. They cause fatigue and can frustrate new shooters. Overthinking your hand is counterproductive. Let your muscle memory run the gun. I always reminded students to keep their eye on an aiming point and never peek to see where individual shots are hitting. When I would go shooting my wife always asked if I was "on" that day. You see, sometimes I was "off".

[CraigS]

A year or so ago I was helping a friend w/ his first pistol. I noticed he was taking forever to get off a shot. I didn't say anything for maybe 3 mags worth of practice. Then I said try something a little different. Put in a fresh mag (8rnds) and don't try to be perfect just shoot at a quicker pace. Say to yourself 'one one thousand, two one thousand', shoot, 'one one thousand, two one thousand', shoot. That group was his best so far. So we then talked about not trying to get that perfect sight picture, accepting some sight wobble, etc. I suspect that, if you can get more time shooting in, you will get back to more of what you expect. A coach would be nice but youtube can be your friend. Just don't take any one expert shooter's recommendations 100%. We are not all built the same so what works for MrX, is fine, but some variation, or a combo of MrX and MrY, may work better for you. Also, while I don't shoot any revolvers, I do understand that a revolver grip is quite different from a semi-auto pistol grip. It might not be a bad idea to concentrate on the PX4CC for a while.

[willie]

When I was taught double action shooting, the coach warned against "praying over" the shot--taking too long to pull the trigger. Also, he/they taught me to use area aiming instead of trying to pull the trigger when the sight aligned on a small aiming point. Aligning and then maintaining this picture while firing within a certain area produces good results. Over time the shooter improves to the point he can fire rapidly and keep all shots within this area.

[Jdru82]

Bummer man. In my experience when people take a break it takes some time to sharpen their skills again. Keep practicing I am sure your form will come back. Maybe take a class or two as well.

[TCinVA]

Let your muscle memory run the gun.

If I let my muscle memory run the gun, I will immediately suck.

There are times when top level athletes get into a "zone" where things they are trying to do seem to happen almost automatically. Through constant practice over a prolonged period of time in combination with high level coaching and boatloads of natural talent and capability for those tasks that exceeds what most human beings are capable of by multiple standard deviations, those top level athletes can occasionally hit this mental and physical space where everything works together to produce almost other-worldly performance. Even then, even for those guys it's something that happens only occasionally. It's something they chase relentlessly, but it's something they only see for brief fleeting moments:



Nothing in the paragraph above describes the overwhelming majority of people who are carrying a handgun for self defense. Nor does it describe the circumstances they will find themselves in. As rare as being "in the zone is" for professional athletes knowing they're going into an athletic endeavor, it's going to be exponentially more rare for a normal person going about their day when they are suddenly confronted with the need to shoot someone to stop an act of criminal violence.

When we train, at least if we are doing it properly, what we are trying to do is habituate disciplined adherence to a productive process even under stress. If we have never attempted something before we're certainly going to be pretty poor at performing it under stress. But I think this concept of "muscle memory" actually gets in the way of teaching people how to work their way through a useful, productive process that will save their life.

We do not train pilots, for instance, how to respond to an engine failure by telling them to rely on "muscle memory." We give them a checklist. They certainly need time in the aircraft and on the controls of the aircraft if they are going to successfully use them to work through that checklist process. Difficult to control fuel trim if you have no idea where the controls for that specific function are...but the point is that in every other endeavor where life is on the line, we teach people to focus on and deliberately work through a process that gives them the best chance of succeeding.

Instead of a "zone" or "muscle memory" I prefer to use the analogy of a camera lens. There are times when the lens has a wide focus to see a lot of things. But there are times where you zoom in on a particular subject or area to get a shot. Firing an accurate shot with a handgun is much the same.

We have to teach people the process of firing an accurate shot, and we have to teach them the appropriate time to focus on the specific actions necessary to perform that task, and where to put their focus at any particular point in that process. Grip the gun. Watch the sights. Press the trigger. Follow through. That process requires disciplined focus to complete correctly.

Holding the gun is not useful. Actively gripping the gun is. Pulling the trigger is not useful. Actively managing the trigger's movement is. Having sights in the eyeline is useful...except when you fuck the two aforementioned things up in which case your sights don't mean diddly. Watching the target through the sights to track what it's doing and what you're doing to the gun is much more useful.

Through teaching, range work, and follow on practice we help them understand what actively gripping the gun and actively managing the trigger's movement is so that under stress when they recognize a need to put a bullet in a particular spot they "zoom in" on their process of firing an accurate shot and work through the process in the right order.

We do this to teach normal people how to respond appropriately in all sorts of other endeavors ranging from emergency medical response to nuclear disaster mitigation.

When even very high level performers with exceptional levels of time behind the gun get put under significant stress I've watched them neglect that productive process. They try to run on auto-pilot and sometimes it works...but more often it just flat fucking fails.

If "muscle memory" won't save the guys who are putting many thousands of rounds per year down range, I don't think it's a reliable concept for training.

The bullet does what it's told. If you actively grip the gun, actively manage the movement of the trigger, and watch the sights then the bullet will hit the intended target whether you are Rob Leatham or a dude who just picked up a handgun for the first time. What separates the highly skilled shooters from the unskilled is how much time and effort they've spent habituating that productive process and the amount of focus they place on following it when the time comes to fire the shot.

People who have been shooting "for years" often exhibit very minimal skill for their efforts because they fundamentally don't understand what a proper process looks like and because they don't understand what's happening and how they are contributing to it, all they know is that the sights start out on target then the tape gets a blank spot and now there's a bullet hole somewhere other than where they wanted it. And the only information they're typically given is that it's because they were "jerking the trigger", which I've come to learn the hard way is absolute nonsense.

[willie]

If I let my muscle memory run the gun, I will immediately suck.

There are times when top level athletes get into a "zone" where things they are trying to do seem to happen almost automatically. Through constant practice over a prolonged period of time in combination with high level coaching and boatloads of natural talent and capability for those tasks that exceeds what most human beings are capable of by multiple standard deviations, those top level athletes can occasionally hit this mental and physical space where everything works together to produce almost other-worldly performance. Even then, even for those guys it's something that happens only occasionally. It's something they chase relentlessly, but it's something they only see for brief fleeting moments:



Nothing in the paragraph above describes the overwhelming majority of people who are carrying a handgun for self defense. Nor does it describe the circumstances they will find themselves in. As rare as being "in the zone is" for professional athletes knowing they're going into an athletic endeavor, it's going to be exponentially more rare for a normal person going about their day when they are suddenly confronted with the need to shoot someone to stop an act of criminal violence.

When we train, at least if we are doing it properly, what we are trying to do is habituate disciplined adherence to a productive process even under stress. If we have never attempted something before we're certainly going to be pretty poor at performing it under stress. But I think this concept of "muscle memory" actually gets in the way of teaching people how to work their way through a useful, productive process that will save their life.

We do not train pilots, for instance, how to respond to an engine failure by telling them to rely on "muscle memory." We give them a checklist. They certainly need time in the aircraft and on the controls of the aircraft if they are going to successfully use them to work through that checklist process. Difficult to control fuel trim if you have no idea where the controls for that specific function are...but the point is that in every other endeavor where life is on the line, we teach people to focus on and deliberately work through a process that gives them the best chance of succeeding.

Instead of a "zone" or "muscle memory" I prefer to use the analogy of a camera lens. There are times when the lens has a wide focus to see a lot of things. But there are times where you zoom in on a particular subject or area to get a shot. Firing an accurate shot with a handgun is much the same.

We have to teach people the process of firing an accurate shot, and we have to teach them the appropriate time to focus on the specific actions necessary to perform that task, and where to put their focus at any particular point in that process. Grip the gun. Watch the sights. Press the trigger. Follow through. That process requires disciplined focus to complete correctly.

Holding the gun is not useful. Actively gripping the gun is. Pulling the trigger is not useful. Actively managing the trigger's movement is. Having sights in the eyeline is useful...except when you fuck the two aforementioned things up in which case your sights don't mean diddly. Watching the target through the sights to track what it's doing and what you're doing to the gun is much more useful.

Through teaching, range work, and follow on practice we help them understand what actively gripping the gun and actively managing the trigger's movement is so that under stress when they recognize a need to put a bullet in a particular spot they "zoom in" on their process of firing an accurate shot and work through the process in the right order.

We do this to teach normal people how to respond appropriately in all sorts of other endeavors ranging from emergency medical response to nuclear disaster mitigation.

When even very high level performers with exceptional levels of time behind the gun get put under significant stress I've watched them neglect that productive process. They try to run on auto-pilot and sometimes it works...but more often it just flat fucking fails.

If "muscle memory" won't save the guys who are putting many thousands of rounds per year down range, I don't think it's a reliable concept for training.

The bullet does what it's told. If you actively grip the gun, actively manage the movement of the trigger, and watch the sights then the bullet will hit the intended target whether you are Rob Leatham or a dude who just picked up a handgun for the first time. What separates the highly skilled shooters from the unskilled is how much time and effort they've spent habituating that productive process and the amount of focus they place on following it when the time comes to fire the shot.

People who have been shooting "for years" often exhibit very minimal skill for their efforts because they fundamentally don't understand what a proper process looks like and because they don't understand what's happening and how they are contributing to it, all they know is that the sights start out on target then the tape gets a blank spot and now there's a bullet hole somewhere other than where they wanted it. And the only information they're typically given is that it's because they were "jerking the trigger", which I've come to learn the hard way is absolute nonsense.

You wrote an excellent narrative with valid points. I wrote from my perspective. My teachers were national champions, and I had the advantage of free ammo and strong motivation. I omitted trigger technique, sight alignment, and proper grip. The shooter, of course, has to master skills pertaining to these. Muscle memory is a vague term and lacks exactness. Shooters can learn poor technique which can become part of "muscle memory".