Model 64 not carrying up completely

[jtcarm]

Did you perchance check end shake before sending it to them? Did they say how much it was before and after they did whatever they did?

End shake can affect timing, it needs to be corrected before correcting timing. They may have thought it fixed at that point or it missed its next appointment with the hand department or however they do things.

Have you checked it with some drag on the cylinder? Slow hammer cocking with resistance, then slow trigger cocking with resistance and see if it fully indexes both ways?

Endshake before sending was barely detectable and still is.

I thought maybe the endshake was affecting timing and that’s what they addressed, but it obviously failed. I can’t tell that they did anything.

I think OJ may be on to something so I’ll check the cylinder stop.

From what I’ve read, a new, thicker hand may be in order. The Power oversized hand is definitely too big and would require opening the window in the frame. That’s a forever change that I’d never DIY and prefer not to have a even have a gunsmith (and definitely not Clark) do if it’s avoidable.

This will all happen be after a conversation with Clark.

Jimmy must be spinning in his grave.

[jtcarm]

In 1971 I bought a new Model 25 in .45 ACP. Firing pin hit primer on the very edge of primer. I sent it back to Smith who said that as long as if fired, it was within spec. Two other Smith mechanics including a famous Texas Python mechanic agreed. I shot this guns 1000's of times. No problems. I prefer that pins strike dead center. I learned a long time ago that our beloved factory revolvers are generic guns made in large numbers during runs having statistical controls on tolerances. As tools wear, more variation occurs. Precision may not be what we would prefer. The late well known Frank Smith who spent 40 years repairing Smith products told me that my weird firing pin primer strike issue was caused by the frame being slightly off. He said that using a babbitt bar to move the frame might screw up something else.

Well, a couple of things:

1. The gun hasn’t always done this, so I seriously doubt it’s the frame.

2. The off-center strikes have resulted in FTGBs (Failures To Go Bang.). So, it’s a problem.

I’m glad your happy with your M-25, but in IMO, if that couldn’t be fixed, the gun is a boat anchor and you should’ve been sent a new one.

[willie]

Well, a couple of things:

1. The gun hasn’t always done this, so I seriously doubt it’s the frame.

2. The off-center strikes have resulted in FTGBs (Failures To Go Bang.). So, it’s a problem.

I’m glad your happy with your M-25, but in IMO, if that couldn’t be fixed, the gun is a boat anchor and you should’ve been sent a new one.

I was never pleased with it. I should have said that Clark's gunsmith might have had the same reasoning as S&W did with mine. Dan Lehr on this forum used to repair Smith revolvers. @Dan Lehr

[jtcarm]

I should have said that Clark's gunsmith might have had the same reasoning as S&W did with mine

If that’s the case they should’ve communicated such, which is where I would’ve called BS.

[Malamute]

Endshake before sending was barely detectable and still is.

I thought maybe the endshake was affecting timing and that’s what they addressed, but it obviously failed. I can’t tell that they did anything.

I think OJ may be on to something so I’ll check the cylinder stop.

From what I’ve read, a new, thicker hand may be in order. The Power oversized hand is definitely too big and would require opening the window in the frame. That’s a forever change that I’d never DIY and prefer not to have a even have a gunsmith (and definitely not Clark) do if it’s avoidable.

This will all happen be after a conversation with Clark.

Jimmy must be spinning in his grave.

Opening up the frame is a last resort, and only if the needed oversize amount wont fit. Measure the hand thats in it and compare the width to the Power one, Id take the Power one down to about .003" larger and see if it either fits in the frame window and corrects the problem. If it didjt fit, id take it down some more, until it fit the window and see if it corrected the issue. Yes, you may take it down too much, but thats why they make more, and it will likely work in another gun at some point. Always modify the cheapest and easiest part to replace.

Smith didnt make one single size hand and single oversize hand, they were a variety, i suspect they mainly used the next larger size on hand when fitting them at the factory. Some Ive checked only varied by .001", some were between even thousandths. If you ordered an oversize, they had no way to specify the size, you just got what they sent. After access to some hands and checking them, I realized they were made in quite a range of sizes. I use the smallest next size up that will work to correct the timing. If only a thou or so larger it may not even require real fitting and still correct it, but Id only open the frame window as a last resort after taking an oversize hand down as close to the one thats in it as I could. Ive so far only needed to basically de-burr the frame window to get a larger hand to work. Work on the inside (left) side of the window also, otherwise youre wasting the width advantage of the oversize hand. The hand needs to push the ratchet teeth farther left to improve carry up.

[Irelander]

If you haven't done this already, pull the trigger in DA while lightly touching the cylinder with another finger. This puts some drag on the cylinder. When the hammer falls and the trigger held back, make sure the cylinder is locked up tight. If you hear a click when turning the cylinder, it's not locked up. I had this issue with my j-frame. The hand was sloppy in the window and getting pushed out of the way before the cylinder was rotated far enough to lock. I bent the hand ever so slightly inward so that it was not loose in the window. Some minor fitting of the hand where it contacts the ratchet pads and viola, the cylinder locks up super tight, no play whatsoever.

Not sure if that is exactly your issue but might be something to check.

[blues]

If you haven't done this already, pull the trigger in DA while lightly touching the cylinder with another finger. This puts some drag on the cylinder. When the hammer falls and the trigger held back, make sure the cylinder is locked up tight. If you hear a click when turning the cylinder, it's not locked up. I had this issue with my j-frame. The hand was sloppy in the window and getting pushed out of the way before the cylinder was rotated far enough to lock. I bent the hand ever so slightly inward so that it was not loose in the window. Some minor fitting of the hand where it contacts the ratchet pads and viola, the cylinder locks up super tight, no play whatsoever.

Not sure if that is exactly your issue but might be something to check.

So...you're saying it's fit as a fiddle...?

[Irelander]

using a babbitt bar to move the frame

This would be my next suggestion but that is a bit risky.

Another thing to check is for yoke play. Close the cylinder and try to move the cylinder back and forth as if you were trying to open and close the cylinder. Watch the gap between the yoke and frame. If the gap changes with cylinder pressure the yoke will need adjusted.

If lockup is good, you could get some Range Rods and make sure your chambers are properly aligned with the bore at lock up. If so, I'd say the off center primer hits are nothing to worry about

[OlongJohnson]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/yoke

yoke
\ ˈyōk \
plural yokes
Definition of yoke (Entry 1 of 2)
1g: a clamp or similar piece that embraces two parts to hold or unite them in position


A yolk is a part of an egg.

[Irelander]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/yoke

yoke
\ ˈyōk \
plural yokes
Definition of yoke (Entry 1 of 2)
1g: a clamp or similar piece that embraces two parts to hold or unite them in position


A yolk is a part of an egg.

DANGIT! I knew something didn't look right.