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Thread: Big Fish in Small Ponds; Insularity in LE Firearms Instruction

  1. #61
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    Living across the Golden Bridge , and through the Rainbow Tunnel, somewhere north of Fantasyland.
    I think success in this arena is largely regional, and most often temporary. It is either driven by committed individuals, or it isn't driven at all. Most big city LE agencies, and likely most state and Federal agencies, frankly wish that guns would just go away. Their policies and thinking are very often driven by progressive political priorities....and making LEOs proficient with their firearms is not counted among those. Add to that the negative reinforcement effect that DB has written about so often (positive reinforcement for administrators when cops are killed/negative reinforcement when we win), and you realize this will never be a leading priority of admin types. The people who pursue rank tend not to be "performance focused" personalities, and often see their subordinates as liabilities.

    This being the reality, it really does fall to individual instructors, especially leaders/supervisors, to drive the training agenda. When you have someone who is passionate about it, who spends their off time training and researching, you can accomplish something. You'll likely face sabotage and roadblocks, but you can move the ball. Again on the topic of the OP, I think challenging uninterested instructors with continuous training of their own can motivate most of these folks.

    I was listening to one of Matt Prankas "Redneck Podcasts" with Pannone and another LE instructor I'm not familiar with. The topic was training and standards for LE. I agreed with what they were saying, and the stated need for communicating the need for higher standards to Admin. But I just don't get the impression that these gentlemen truly understand how difficult that is. They both come from a place where proficiency was truly valued (demanded), including by leadership. It's hard for folks from that background to grasp the most LE administrators really don't give a flying fuck whether or not their cops are proficient. It isn't something that ever enters their minds. And until we start making it hurt for folks whose decisions impact this area, that won't change.

  2. #62
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Politics seldom has much to do with this.

    Police administrators who have never been trainers in any topic don’t understand how critical training is.

    Lots of police administrators don’t really believe in their heart of hearts that anything bad will actually happen, even though there is evidence to the contrary every damn day.

    Firearms training and training in emergency vehicle operation is expensive and time consuming. Many agencies in urban areas have very limited access to shooting ranges and driving tracks.

    When doing defensive tactics training, there is always the possibility of injury. Administrators really want to avoid getting anybody injured in the gym. And you would not believe how much old and out-of-shape cops whine about it. (At the end of my career I was old & out-of-shape but enthusiastic)

    And if you’re short staffed, it can be difficult to pull cops off the street for training. Some agencies will backfill with cops on over time to cover, and others don’t have the budget for that.

    And most cops are not that interested in skills training beyond a basic level, and administrators know that and they do get tired of listening to the whining.

    I think I was pretty lucky. In 40 years of going firearms instruction (13 years teaching at the local regional police academy) most of the people I trained were reasonably safe, reasonably competent at a basic level and had good attitudes most of the time.

  3. #63
    Site Supporter psalms144.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Bloomington, IN
    As a newly retired LE Firearms Instructor, I'll post the opposite opinion:

    1. Management does NOT want meaningful training or challenging "qualifications" which might reduce manpower availability due to shooters being "DQ'd"
    2. The VAST majority of "shooters" showing up are not shooters, don't want to be shooters, and don't give a flying f*** about improving
    3. A very small minority are REALLY terrible, unsafe, and need to be watched like hawks. They eat up 95% of the time of any FI actually paying attention
    4. An equally small minority are actual shooters. Some of them understand reality, shoot the best they can, and move on to do high quality training on their own. Some of them bitch endlessly about how the training isn't "up to snuff," and the instructors are "just getting by."

    Meanwhile, I spent 20+ years as an FI, never in a full-time capacity, always traveling to provide what training and qualification I could get time and resources to pull off, while dealing with 98 out of 100 folks who think I'm a f***stick, and who I could never please. So, I'm frankly SUPER glad to be out of that business altogether. The training I'm doing now is for folks who are (a) willing to dedicate time and money to be there, and (b) know what they're getting in advance. Basic shooters don't think they're going to some high-speed low drag fast roping event. Advanced shooters aren't on the line with folks who don't know how to load, handle, or shoot their firearm. Why? Because I'm actually the one setting the schedule, planning the POIs, and executing. For MOST LE FIs, that's not the case, and they're just trying to make the best of a really shitty situation.

    Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled "bitch about the instructors" segment.

  4. #64
    One of the best things I've seen happen to my department was when our marksmanship team was formed. It took a while to gain traction but we now have a core group of really good shooters. When we first started most were C class with a few B class shooters on a good day, as time has progressed we're getting consistent A class and Masters now.

    About a 1/3 of the instructor cadre are on the team which allows new ideas to flow upward. It also helps that the Captain of the training academy is a team member and a Master class single stack shooter.

    We have two fundraisers a year that help with fees for state and national matches and to bring in relevant outside instructors so that you're not stuck with the same old LE shooting curriculum. Scott Jedlinski and JJ Racaza are some of the instructors that we have been able to bring in.

    So now we have a pipeline of good shooters that have competed and trained outside of typical LE classes and they seem to get preference when we have openings for range instructors. It's the best thing I've seen happen at my agency in a long time. The trickle down effect is real because the department has better instructors and patrol gets better training.

    Check us out at hpdmt on IG.

    Sent from my SM-A135U1 using Tapatalk

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