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Thread: Big Fish in Small Ponds; Insularity in LE Firearms Instruction

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hearne View Post
    Re FLETC, I was told that they typically lose two out of every class. Some times more, some times less, but it averages out to two.

    Re the FBI, is this the new target?
    https://d16ztny0u4c50x.cloudfront.ne...%20q20-p_n.jpg
    Yes. That is the new target.

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  2. #52
    Member John Hearne's Avatar
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    In the department of amazing similarities.....
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    Yes. That is the new target.

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    So am I correct as interpreting that to mean that they must score 100%, or is it still 90% but only hits in the rings count?

  4. #54
    Site Supporter JDD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    This brings up a potentially useful discussion. Should firearms instructor courses be (predominantly) shooting courses, instructional development courses, or some mixture? Will the student get more from making the gun bang? Or is the benefit from coaching other students and possibly presenting a portion of the material?

    If states and/or agencies are requiring subject matter non-specific instructor development classes first, and the candidate is "competent", how much time is needed for handgun? for carbine? for shotgun? what about other skills - low light, high-risk stops?

    Does coaching, as is done in the Rangemaster class sufficient? Is setting up and running the range for a drill enough? Does it require 30 minutes in front of the classroom?
    Outside of a skills-test type prerequisite (because we want to avoid the "those who can't do - teach" pitfall), I think the reps that an instructor course needs should be primarily filled by the students filling the role of students for their classmates or instructors during teach-back practical demonstrations.

    If you are at an instructor, your minimum qualification to get in the door is personally knowing the techniques and material; the instructor course is to ensure you are prepared to pass that material on to adult learners, to ensure that you can run a range safely, that you can prepare the logistics of running a training program, and to ensure that you are prepared to answer the "why?" and not just the "how?" questions about firearms and techniques. You should be getting rounds downrange during a class, but in my eyes, it should be to show that you belong in the class; during demonstrations as part of the modules you are presenting to prac-app; and as you role-play a student class for your peers while they prac-app their lessons.

    I really appreciated the way the SIG academy ran their instructor development course a decade ago when I took it. They held a high standard for skill, and it was a relatively round heavy course because students did not come with a specific curriculum of material that their agency expects them to have, but they really focused on the "why" behind every item they taught - not in a doctrinally calcified way, but in a "you should seek out training, and ensure that your policies and techniques make sense, and are not just a product of 'we have always done it this way.'" They hit hard on actually preparing a lesson plan and how to cover modules in a course - and they made us demonstrate it as part of the instructor course - all the way down to ensuring that we had our logistics in order for what gear we needed to draw to accomplish the training plan.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    So am I correct as interpreting that to mean that they must score 100%, or is it still 90% but only hits in the rings count?
    I think only only the rings count. Will verify.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by John Hearne View Post
    Re FLETC, I was told that they typically lose two out of every class. Some times more, some times less, but it averages out to two.

    We lost two from my class on the shoot-in qual.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  7. #57
    GPSTC furnishes ammo for classes; however, they have instituted a new policy:

    Students must bring the ammo needed for any “shoot-in”.

    They calculated how much they were spending on ammo for students were gone after the “shoot-in”.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

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