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Thread: First time with the dot and all I can say is WOW!

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellydonut View Post
    Have you guys noticed any carry-over to your irons shooting? I'm afraid the dot will "spoil" me for irons, but also hopeful it'll be positive for both types of shooting.
    Dry firing with dots will improve index to the point where it helps your iron shooting.

    I don’t practice irons but my iron ability improved a lot when I worked dots in earnest.

  2. #12
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post
    But Bill Wilson and Ken Hackathorn told me that irons are better and dots don’t add anything?!!!!

    I reluctantly went to a dot on my carry gun because I’m just better with it.
    Hackathorn has an RDS on about a half dozen pistols. Most recently added to his most recent Shadow Systems. His emphasis is always on the majority of "average" gun owners or LEOs not the dedicated enthusiasts who probably dry fire nearly daily and shoot frequently as well.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    Hackathorn has an RDS on about a half dozen pistols. Most recently added to his most recent Shadow Systems. His emphasis is always on the majority of "average" gun owners or LEOs not the dedicated enthusiasts who probably dry fire nearly daily and shoot frequently as well.
    And I think he’s still wrong.

    My wife is a noob and she shoots better than a lot of PFrs. I started her on a dot.

    Most students I start with no experience, I start with dots.

    A number of “experienced” people I help at the range sucking it up with irons… suck because they practice wrong because they don’t understand what they’re seeing or not seeing with irons.

    Also, average LEOs in 2022 training are starting on dots.

    He’s living in 1980.

  4. #14
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    It’ll also crack me up when in 2027, most LEO stock service pistols will have RDS…

    But IDPA SSP will still be irons only.

    Maybe with their 2040 rules update….

  5. #15
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post
    And I think he’s still wrong.

    My wife is a noob and she shoots better than a lot of PFrs. I started her on a dot.

    Most students I start with no experience, I start with dots.

    A number of “experienced” people I help at the range sucking it up with irons… suck because they practice wrong because they don’t understand what they’re seeing or not seeing with irons.

    Also, average LEOs in 2022 training are starting on dots.

    He’s living in 1980.
    His context is not marksmanship as much as a startle draw from awkward positions in a life and death fight
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  6. #16
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    Also, my personal opinion is that red dot instructors are remiss if they don’t have a dedicated point shoot / ghost ring window / general slide alignment contact shot teaching session to break noobs of the concept that they absolutely have to visualize lined up sights to make every shot.

    That’s on the instruction, not the equipment.

    @JHC see above

    With BUIS, nothing changes in the startle draw / off alignment than irons.

  7. #17
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellydonut View Post
    Have you guys noticed any carry-over to your irons shooting? I'm afraid the dot will "spoil" me for irons, but also hopeful it'll be positive for both types of shooting.
    Yes and no. Shooting a dot has helped me see faster, and stabilize the sight(s) sooner. Its helped me get better at shooting, and not specifically with irons. However, with irons at distance (20 yds+) I feel like I have to work harder to confirm the rear sight alignment. It's tempting to shortcut the process and use the fiber, and that results in not-so-great hits.

    Bottom line: I need to practice iron sight shooting if I'm going to keep shooting iron sights. And I am definitely going to. I like iron sights, and want to keep my skills with them.
    “There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Bottom line: I need to practice iron sight shooting if I'm going to keep shooting iron sights. And I am definitely going to. I like iron sights, and want to keep my skills with them.
    I wonder how you’ll feel about that in a year.

    You might find that practicing with irons takes away from the time you could spend generally improving faster with dots.

    And it might just become like WHO shooting… something you do, but not much.

  9. #19
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post
    I wonder how you’ll feel about that in a year.

    You might find that practicing with irons takes away from the time you could spend generally improving faster with dots.

    And it might just become like WHO shooting… something you do, but not much.
    It's already like WHO shooting. I hope that regular (but limited) dryfire with irons will be enough to keep the visual cues in my brain. So far it's been ok.
    “There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie

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