RMR has introduced a new version of their 9mm Hollowpoint Bullet

[spyderco monkey]

The most interesting aspect of the RMR is that a relatively small company is able to produce reliably expanding JHPs for 1 penny more then basic FMJ:



Which really highlights the rather brutal price difference we see in retail JHP vs FMJ ammo.

If a company came out with Bulk JHPs that were ~10 cents more then FMJ per 1k (ie $300 for 1k FMJ, $400 for 1k JHP) they would make a killing, as there would be a tremendous market with little competition. I'm hoping we see PSA's ammo division take that up.

[JRB]

I picked up some 124 Nukes a few weeks ago but haven't tried them yet.


This comes up in conversation several times a year on forums. Has there ever been a situation where this has actually happened in the thousands of SD shootings?

I carry factory loadings in my pistols but I have loaded and carried ammo that could be used for SD in both my pistols and rifles. If you you need to defend your life because it is in immediate danger, the ammo that you use shouldn't be a factor. Carry what is best for stopping the threat and minimizing the danger to others.

I'm not here to argue whether you should or shouldn't.

Similar concerns could be made about a plethora of other things. Do you train often to shoot 5 shots in 1.3 seconds? Should you only take one shot to maim or are five justified?

Why are you carrying 17 rounds of super +P whack-a-bad-dude bullets instead of just stun them FMJ or pepper spray?

How about we talk about reloading ammo in the Reloading section and take the arguments about legalities somewhere else?

Just speaking plainly from a broader Risk-Management sort of perspective -

-We can all agree that legal proceedings are often harsh or openly hostile toward folks using guns in self-defense, no matter how 'clear cut' the incident might be.

-We can all agree that much of this harshness or hostility during such an investigation would seek to find anything they could to establish intent or desire to cause someone harm. This process will be ignorant, emotional, and twist/mislead/etc anyone and anything they find in every way possible to push the powers involved to make you out to be an asshole with murderous intent.
It will dig through your social media, your purchases, what you were carrying and wearing and doing that day, the bumper stickers on your car, EVERYTHING they can find will be twisted against you in the harshest and most unreasonable ways they can get away with. If your particular case makes the news cycle, count on them finding every online account and post and everything you've done and said and purchased online since the beginning of the internet.

-We can all agree that there are equally good (probably better) factory defensive loads that can be easily explained as an equivalent or appropriate self defense load as carried by the FBI or local LEO's etc. Basically leaving that hypothetical witch hunt with nothing in at least that one particular category, instead of handing them one more thing to hang you with.


With those three factors in mind, I just can't find any reason at all to carry weird boutique shit like RIP ammo or handloads with bullets called 'Nuke' or anything like that.
I get it that you're seeing it from the side of 'tell me why not to', but I'm just seeing nothing in the 'tell me why I should' column.

[Rick R]

I make every effort to load my ammo so that it could be used for SD if necessary. That is not my actual goal, of course, and as long as I have two nickels er..., twenty dollar bills to rub together, I will always use the best rated factory ammo I can find.

The elephant in the room is the “best rated factory ammo I can find”. Can somebody point me to a vendor with 124gr Gold Dot +P factory ammo in stock? It’s been a rare beastie for the last couple years, oddly enough I can find the bullets on store shelves but not the ammo. I have recently been seeing some Winchester loaded ammo available locally.

I know that the only time non factory ammo was a topic in any investigation/prosecution I was involved in was when one drug-thug shot another thru a wooden door with a .38 loaded with 158gr cast bullets and the passage thru wood neatly removed all identifying features from the soft projectiles. The fact that they were reloads didn’t become an issue.

I routinely carry factory ammo in public but if I’m afield and some orc gets thwarted by a 200gr 10mm cast or 250gr .44 Keith reload I doubt the local attorneys of either leaning will make an issue.

Your political mileage may vary.

[Whirlwind06]

Using hand loaded as SD ammo issues aside, it seems the JHP is generally more accurate than FMJ or cast.
At this price, I could see using these in matches.

[Hambo]

Using hand loaded as SD ammo issues aside, it seems the JHP is generally more accurate than FMJ or cast.
At this price, I could see using these in matches.

I really doubt there is HST level of development in these JHPs, but I'm thinking the same thing you are. At this price, you can't get hurt trying them.

[358156hp]

The elephant in the room is the “best rated factory ammo I can find”. Can somebody point me to a vendor with 124gr Gold Dot +P factory ammo in stock? It’s been a rare beastie for the last couple years, oddly enough I can find the bullets on store shelves but not the ammo. I have recently been seeing some Winchester loaded ammo available locally.

I know that the only time non factory ammo was a topic in any investigation/prosecution I was involved in was when one drug-thug shot another thru a wooden door with a .38 loaded with 158gr cast bullets and the passage thru wood neatly removed all identifying features from the soft projectiles. The fact that they were reloads didn’t become an issue.

I routinely carry factory ammo in public but if I’m afield and some orc gets thwarted by a 200gr 10mm cast or 250gr .44 Keith reload I doubt the local attorneys of either leaning will make an issue.

Your political mileage may vary.

I have plenty of appropriate SD ammo, as I suspect most of us here probably do. Before COVID, I was a "grazer", I'd spend a hundred dollars here, and a hundred dollars there on SD ammo. I reload my practice and field ammo, often with bullets I cast myself, including hollowpoints. It took me decades to amass my stuff, and I'd still like to get more primers of course.

I can get by.

[Rick R]

I have plenty of appropriate SD ammo, as I suspect most of us here probably do. Before COVID, I was a "grazer", I'd spend a hundred dollars here, and a hundred dollars there on SD ammo. I reload my practice and field ammo, often with bullets I cast myself, including hollowpoints. It took me decades to amass my stuff, and I'd still like to get more primers of course.

I can get by.

I had to laugh at myself. I went to Cabelas yesterday and lo’ n behold, they had 20 round boxes of Speer 124gr +P Gold Dots on their shelf. It was $29.99 per box, but they had it. I honestly have a couple years of SD ammo on hand too, but it is interesting that RMR is trying to make a viable hp bullet.

[Tokarev]

We need to get @5pins to buy 500 each of the 115 and 124 grain and test in several barrel lengths. He loves doing this kind of stuff!


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[SecondsCount]

I have the 124s and will be loading and shooting this weekend for accuracy. May bring out the chrono and some water filled milk jugs for fun.

[5pins]

I think I still have some of their old stuff laying around. Originally their house brand was made by Zero, I think, then they started making their own but in 125gr. IIRC it didn't expand very well and was probably better suited for .357 sig.