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Thread: Stepping away from being a rifleman

  1. #41
    Member JDD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karmapolice View Post
    I'm going to gripe here and you will probably delete it but whatever.

    First off why is this a thread, second I hear a lot of excuses, as a professional end users and LE you should be taking your own time to rectify these gaps in training period.

    1) For low light, there is no difference with the issue with a pistol or a long gun you are in plain clothes. You need to rectify this even for off duty stuff, Visi Blue makes a great product to address this that every LE should have - https://visiblue.net/products/the-po...ie-neon-police

    2) Scott lock is a great system to use that isn't vehicle specific or require modification to the vehicle - https://scottlockusa.com/

    3) Fix this, find a good course make structured training plans, dry fire, etc. you are a professional gun toter. Yes the agency should be better and offer more but that isn't an excuse.

    4) The long gun is a great tool and when it comes to the I think I'm going to need a gun I want a rifle period, not always possible but why short yourself an extremely capable option for your line of work.

    From a former professional LE gun toter. This and the Pistol RDS zero thread make me so sad about the state of this place and some of the loud voices here that quite frankly need to shut up.
    I have gone back and forth about this exact issue mentally a few times.

    I am Law Enforcement, I carry a gun, I have an issued long gun that I maintain as a response tool in extremely exigent circumstances.

    What I do not have, is an endless amount of time. There are a finite number of hours in a week for me to be with my family, raise my children, look after my health, and do my job. I categorize everything from physical fitness and conditioning, to hard skills under the heading of doing my job. Hard skills are also hobbies that I enjoy, but I approach them as work and discipline myself to approach them that way.

    The government did not put me where I am to be a gunfighter. It wants me to maintain a specified level of proficiency (one that I feel is uncomfortably low), but I am at a point in my career where my work is judged by the performance of my team and investigative outcomes of my cases. I don't want to get into the details of my work, but I have a large team and at a certain point, I have to decide between improving my hard skills or improving the hard skills of my team. I have to chose between extra gym time, and time hunching my shoulders while I sit in front of a computer working on case files. I'm going to maintain a baseline of skills, but I don't have the time for personal development that I had when I was a lance corporal responsible for only myself. I am forced to balance it against the time I spend on making my unit a more effective whole and on outcomes that are not necessarily generated by hard skills work. I am not to the point where I will sacrifice my time budget for long gun skills, but I get where he was coming from.

    If I was internet savvy, I would throw in a .gif of the Sgt Maj in "We were Soldiers" saying that if he needs a rifle, there will be plenty on the ground...

  2. #42
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    When I was on an actual shift, I had an officer who did not shoot regularly when off duty, but he was consistent with maintaining his martial arts skill. Me? I preferred to shoot, but couldn't correctly differentiate a dojo from a dodo . Given we both had limited amounts of uncommitted time, we decided that he'd do him and I'd do me.

  3. #43
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    Can we dive deeper into #3? I am interested in what shortcomings your current training has, and what you feel as an experienced cop could be beneficial.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #44

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    For me, this quote only gets truer every day.

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  5. #45
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babypanther View Post
    Can we dive deeper into #3? I am interested in what shortcomings your current training has, and what you feel as an experienced cop could be beneficial.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    So when I first started, you got more hours of trigger time. We did a lot of work with cover and barricades and contorted firing positions, moving targets, shooting on the move, cover/contact drills (sort of a variation on leaping overwatch but for a LE environment where suppressing fire isn't a thing), etc. On most every Friday you could go practice on your own as well.

    Now we get 8 hours, which is really about 6 hours, and last in-service was a lot of repetitive malfunction clearance/transition drills. Not that it's a useless skill, but if you've only got 8 hours a year is that *really* what the focus of so much of the time should be on? Or did someone just attend a cool guy school, get a cool guy idea, and decide to shoehorn that in?

    Our range was refurbished, and apparently it's now too nice to let us use it. No more open training.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  6. #46
    Site Supporter Coyotesfan97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    So when I first started, you got more hours of trigger time. We did a lot of work with cover and barricades and contorted firing positions, moving targets, shooting on the move, cover/contact drills (sort of a variation on leaping overwatch but for a LE environment where suppressing fire isn't a thing), etc. On most every Friday you could go practice on your own as well.

    Now we get 8 hours, which is really about 6 hours, and last in-service was a lot of repetitive malfunction clearance/transition drills. Not that it's a useless skill, but if you've only got 8 hours a year is that *really* what the focus of so much of the time should be on? Or did someone just attend a cool guy school, get a cool guy idea, and decide to shoehorn that in?

    Our range was refurbished, and apparently it's now too nice to let us use it. No more open training.
    We got about three to fours hours of rifle training quarterly. One of those quarters was dedicated to bounding overwatch. The range guys were planning on integrating non rifle Officers into it so they’d at least have an idea what we were doing if it was used in a real situation. We did qualifications twice a year. The range guys always did a great job and we had good stressful timed/scored drills at the end of each session. They kept track of everyone’s scores and sent the list out to the rifle guys. The rifle range is 200 yards so we could do longer shooting too.

    You got 120 rounds to shoot each month so they’ve invested into the rifle program.
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  7. #47
    I will agree the Scott Lock is a great system that I have had for over a year, good stuff.

    2) Scott lock is a great system to use that isn't vehicle specific or require modification to the vehicle - https://scottlockusa.com/

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    So when I first started, you got more hours of trigger time. We did a lot of work with cover and barricades and contorted firing positions, moving targets, shooting on the move, cover/contact drills (sort of a variation on leaping overwatch but for a LE environment where suppressing fire isn't a thing), etc. On most every Friday you could go practice on your own as well.

    Now we get 8 hours, which is really about 6 hours, and last in-service was a lot of repetitive malfunction clearance/transition drills. Not that it's a useless skill, but if you've only got 8 hours a year is that *really* what the focus of so much of the time should be on? Or did someone just attend a cool guy school, get a cool guy idea, and decide to shoehorn that in?

    Our range was refurbished, and apparently it's now too nice to let us use it. No more open training.
    Sometimes the course work is less driven by a guy went to a class and more based on what the instructors are seeing concerning student issues. Covid shut down our training at times. We found this caused some retention issues and incorporating malfunction into much of the course work was a solution. This was based on several officers looking at or trying to hand off a rifle when the gun went tits up because they didn’t recall the clearing procedure. I get as frustrated as you that we can’t always progress past things that should be second nature. As you know too the level of commitment by some of the new folks is lacking.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    Our range was refurbished, and apparently it's now too nice to let us use it. No more open training.
    Years ago a club I am a member of had a fire on the indoor range and was consequently rebuilt, and in the process got drywalled and painted like it was somebody's living room. This caused much angst when it started to look more like the shooting range it was/is, maybe somebody woulda seen that coming...

  10. #50
    Similar deal here; the local club was allowed to shoot on the National Guard Armory indoor range, built by the WPA ca 1933. A real dungeon, but convenient to get too. Then they put up a new National Guard Armory in the industrial park with a modern range. Nobody got to use that one, not even the NG, the management just used it as a storeroom.
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