Stepping away from being a rifleman

[KevH]

Can you carry a shotgun as a long-gun instead of a rifle if you find yourself working in a patrol setting?

I've stayed qualified with a rifle off and on dependent upon assignment, but for the last seven years typically have only carried a Remington 870 as a long gun while working patrol.

I evaluated what I actually grabbed in most instances, what I was most comfortable using and at the rifle "saturation" at my own department and most others locally.

I came to the conclusion that in 95% of the scenarios I could come up with the 870 was more than adequate and in the other 5% where I might have to make a 50 yard plus shot there would likely be plenty of others cops with rifles around me.

[BehindBlueI's]

Can you carry a shotgun as a long-gun instead of a rifle if you find yourself working in a patrol setting?

Yup. I'm still shotgun qualified.

[HeavyDuty]

Jesus, @karmapolice - who pissed in your Wheaties today? I think he made his reasons quite clear. I didn’t see any excuses.

[MDFA]

I think you made the right call brother. For all the right reasons.

[TC215]

Agreed that it’s not really a lieutenant’s place to be walking around on scene with a rifle, but you never know what situation you’ll find yourself in.

I think the other obstacles can be overcome. A plainclothes officer with a rifle out should have a vest/raid jacket/whatever on. It’s also not hard to put out on the radio that plainclothes officers are on scene. A very large federal agency keeps rifles in the trunk and uses a chain/lock to secure the trunk lid.

Of course, in the end, it’s your decision to make.

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm going to gripe here and you will probably delete it but whatever.

First off why is this a thread, second I hear a lot of excuses, as a professional end users and LE you should be taking your own time to rectify these gaps in training period.

1) For low light, there is no difference with the issue with a pistol or a long gun you are in plain clothes. You need to rectify this even for off duty stuff, Visi Blue makes a great product to address this that every LE should have - https://visiblue.net/products/the-po...ie-neon-police

2) Scott lock is a great system to use that isn't vehicle specific or require modification to the vehicle - https://scottlockusa.com/

3) Fix this, find a good course make structured training plans, dry fire, etc. you are a professional gun toter. Yes the agency should be better and offer more but that isn't an excuse.

4) The long gun is a great tool and when it comes to the I think I'm going to need a gun I want a rifle period, not always possible but why short yourself an extremely capable option for your line of work.

From a former professional LE gun toter. This and the Pistol RDS zero thread make me so sad about the state of this place and some of the loud voices here that quite frankly need to shut up.

Not sure why I would delete it, other than being needlessly dickish at the end which you can own. It's a thread so people can provide feedback, which they have. Even you.

1) Disagree. Long gun silhouette isn't the same, I'd be out of comms if I had both hands full of long gun since I don't have a lapel mic in plain clothes, etc. You may disagree, but I believe in my situation an exposed long gun escalates the risk of blue on blue and needlessly confuses the scene.

2) No. Not only would that violate policy, but it's pants on head silly to think that people equipped to steal catalytic converters aren't going to grab that rifle in a heartbeat as well. You've no idea how much time would have with my car should they want it.

3) No. I have limited time and treasure, and this is no longer worth it to me. I'm better served doing other things, and so is everyone else. Increasing my language proficiency, BJJ, just spending time not doing cop shit. All matter more to me now than doing what practice I can within an hour radius.

4) Agreed, and if I was still in patrol or even likely to return to patrol or any remotely patrol like function I would keep it. But I'm not. This is my last stop before retirement unless I really piss somebody off. Maybe even then. I'm working on the upper floor of a secured building, responding to scenes as a 3rd responder (after uniformed officers and my detectives). Sure, there's a non-zero chance I amy find myself passing an active shooter on my commute and know it (I'm not even on the same radio channel) that tiny chance doesn't overcome the negatives for me. I'm also the guy who's coordinating the investigation if officers do have to shoot or are shot, which means it's even less likely I'll be pulling up and deploying a rifle as a "more bodies arriving" officer. I'm not a professional gun toter any more than I'm a professional driver. That's a part of my job, but not the major function and if I *do* need my gun again it's pretty unlikely I'll have time to hump to my car to get it. I'll be spending what time I can with my pistol, because that's what I've got on me.

[BehindBlueI's]

Agreed that it’s not really a lieutenant’s place to be walking around on scene with a rifle, but you never know what situation you’ll find yourself in.

I think the other obstacles can be overcome. A plainclothes officer with a rifle out should have a vest/raid jacket/whatever on. It’s also not hard to put out on the radio that plainclothes officers are on scene. A very large federal agency keeps rifles in the trunk and uses a chain/lock to secure the trunk lid.

Of course, in the end, it’s your decision to make.

Agreed, which is why I held on to it for awhile and was of two minds. I don't trust radio traffic to alert responding officers, though. Too many channels, too much confusion, too many new officers with hiring standards that are...different then they were in years prior. We've had federal and local cars targeted and long guns stolen, including from racks and chained in, etc. I don't consider a chain secure enough given my current set up. My last office I could see my car through my office window. Now it's in an alley two blocks away...

[TC215]

Agreed, which is why I held on to it for awhile and was of two minds. I don't trust radio traffic to alert responding officers, though. Too many channels, too much confusion, too many new officers with hiring standards that are...different then they were in years prior. We've had federal and local cars targeted and long guns stolen, including from racks and chained in, etc. I don't consider a chain secure enough given my current set up. My last office I could see my car through my office window. Now it's in an alley two blocks away...

Understood, makes sense.

I’ve worn jeans and t-shirts to work for the last 12 years, and will be doing it for at least another 15 years. I’m also a shit magnet, and the scenario of getting shot by another cop is one of the things that keeps me up at night.

[WobblyPossum]

After your last couple of points clarifying your current role at the PD, and the factors regarding your vehicle and local crime, I think you’re making the right call. It sounds like keeping the patrol rifle would be more of a hassle/risk for everyone than a benefit to the community.

[Lester Polfus]

No shit, there I was...

In Oregon the FTEP program is pretty standardized. In the final phase, the new officer drives their own self around in a marked car, while the FTO drives around in civvies in an unmarked car.

I went to a "man with a long gun" call out of my city, on mutual aid with the county, about a week after I finished FTEP. The suspect was a white male with a tan jacket and a "big black gun."

Whilst deploying where the county supervisor told me, I encountered a white male, in a tan jacket, with a slung up AR15. Fortunately I recognized him as an academy classmates FTO, but only because we'd had lunch together about 48 hours earlier. He had a badge around his neck that I really didn't see, because his AR15 was covering it.

I suggested that since he looked just like the suspect maybe he could put out over the air that he was walking around looking just like the suspect, and maybe it would be a good idea to pretty much stay in the hip pocket of a uniformed officer until the situation resolved.

For a few seconds I could tell his egoic self wanted to tell me to get bent, then he realized the wisdom and reached for his radio in his jacket pocket, at which point the armed subject shot himself about 75 yards from us.

I had nightmares about shooting the FTO for a couple of weeks. I would have challenged him first before dropping the hammer, but still.

I think you're making the right call.

The only thing where I could see this not going well is if your city gets involved in some kind of crazy, extended scenario where everybody needs to be on deck with a long gun. I guess if that happens, you just go check out a rifle and make things happen.