Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 50

Thread: Stepping away from being a rifleman

  1. #1
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Midwest

    Stepping away from being a rifleman

    I may regret it, but I'm withdrawing from our rifle program. I thought about it for quite awhile and ultimately concluded that it was no longer a good idea for for me based on the following criteria:


    1) I'm largely unwilling to be in plain clothes with a long gun out, especially in low light situations, in scenarios were a rifle is likely to matter. My concerns for blue on blue are higher than in years past, regardless of if that means I was too optimistic then or too pessimistic now.

    2) I'm in an unmarked car with no real good way to secure the rifle other than a locked trunk, which frankly isn't all that secure. My car is often left unattended in a parking space that's difficult to observe and has a high transient population. I'm unwilling to leave sunglasses in the car, let alone a rifle and ammo. Anyone who breaks into it is getting road flares, a traffic vest, a handcuff key, and a chemical response suit.

    3) I do not feel I'm adequately training to serve well. Since we can no longer train on our own on Fridays and since patrol rifle in-service is one day a year and focusing on things that, IMO, are of limited value, my skills are declining.

    4) I'm in a role where I really shouldn't be grabbing a rifle anyway, and if I have one that's always the temptation. I can't be on a long gun and doing my real job.

    I may be making a mistake, and I can rejoin within 12 months by just doing a basic qual and attending the next in-service, but given the above I think it's the right call.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  2. #2
    banana republican blues's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Blue Ridge Mtns
    Given your explanation, it makes perfect sense...especially, imho, regarding the potential for a blue on blue issue.

    I think you made a wise decision under the circumstances.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  3. #3
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    USA
    1) Are you able to mitigate this by carrying a raid jacket/marked armor and donning that before you grab the rifle?

    2) This is a big one to me. I would not leave a gun in a car without a secure vault or mount.

    3) Are you able to jump in and shoot the rifle qual with other groups, even if it's not "your turn"?

    4) Tuco's famous line comes to mind--there could be a scenario where the only good solution is the fire a rifle, not do your other job. But then again you certainly don't need me to tell you that.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter S Jenks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Live Free or Die
    Regarding #2, the last sedan I owned I disconnected the remote trunk release (which also disconnected the dash button release) and while I never had firearms in there unless going to/from the range, it gave me peace of mind knowing you needed the vehicle key to open it.

    And remember Lieutenant Brian Murphy from Oak Creek, Wisconsin. First on scene to an active shooting in progress, it was reported by Mas in American Handgunner that his cruiser’s rifle/shotgun rack release wasn’t working properly. He engaged the shooter with his USP .45 until it was lost due to injuries to his hand.

    I’m not sure how your department works but can you stay qualified, but choose not to deploy the rifle, on scenes when you need to Lieutenant? Or stow it once resources arrive and you transition to a command role?

  5. #5
    Interesting assessment for LE.

    I am non-LE John Q. Public. I have pretty much come to a subset of a conclusion that If I keep and/or deploy a long gun from my vehicle in the general public square I would be viewed as an emergent threat by anyone LE or non-LE. As such my training and practice focus is with handgun's with long guns to hunker down at home. I occasionally familiarization fire my defensive long guns, but not often.

    Interesting that my personal assessment in not keeping a long gun handy generally correlates with the original posters position as LE.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter Coyotesfan97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Phoenix Metro, AZ
    I think point one and point four are pretty much spot on. I remember jumping out of cars in plainclothes with a badge on a chain around my neck as my only identifier. Definitely not the greatest but at the time (early 90s) that was how we rolled sometimes. At least we had lightweight load bearing vests with police panels on them.

    Point four is the truth. I remember when I started the only people with shotguns were LTs and Sgts. They had shotgun racks. They rarely got deployed. I worked for a pretty good boss and he allowed me to carry an 870 out of the arms room (closet actually). I had it in the trunk in a scabbard. I deployed it a lot.

    The only issue I see for patrol supervisors having rifles is, like you said, have to know when to hold them and when to sling them. Sometimes they’ll be first on the scene where a rifle is needed. But once the cavalry is there it’s time to sling the rifle and transition into the team leader. It’s hard be the team leader making tactical decisions when he’s on the gun on point. If a Sergeant is leading an Immediate Action Team he needs to be in a spot where he’s directing what the team does as a whole. Sometimes it’s hard to step back and do that.
    Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.

  7. #7
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Midwest
    It's incredibly unlikely I'd be the first onscene of an active shooter given my primary assignment and the level of LE saturation we have in this county between multiple city PDs, sheriff's office, state agencies, and a smattering of feds on various task force assignments. It's not impossible, mind you, but I don't think that infinitesimal chance is worth the risk of theft or confusing the response for uniformed officers. Given my reduced time and ability to train, I'd rather focus on handgun exclusively as well. I'm reasonably comfortable with handguns at ranges I'm likely to be able to see well enough to know what's going on well enough to make shoot/no shoot decisions anyway.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  8. #8
    Site Supporter psalms144.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Bloomington, IN
    I'm retired now, and have likewise reached the point where the only time I'm shooting rifles is (a) to zero something new (rifle or optic), or (b) LARPing with cowboy guns (Guide Gun and Sharps carbine). I have no plan to deploy any shoulder fired weapon in/around my house, with the possible exception of a very small AR9 platform, which, frankly, will do anything I need a long gun for if it's on my property.

    No matter how bad the world gets, I don't see a scenario where I'll be back in the role of a Rifleman. So I'm also looking to focus exclusively on handguns.

    In your situation, I think you're making an informed and rational decision.

  9. #9
    Your thought process is reasonable. I’m personally in the “better to have it and not need it” camp. Like with a pistol, most of the necessary skills for using a rifle can be worked dry to leave you with a decent level of ability, especially if you’re solid with your handgun. Good handgun skills seem to translate well to the AR. As some others have mentioned, there might be times when you being on the rifle would be more beneficial than you commanding other officers. The blue-on-blue concerns are legitimate. Like Le Français asked, do you have a marked raid jacket or marked external armor carrier you can don prior to pulling out the rifle? If not, and you can’t get one, then you’re probably right to ditch the rifle. The last thing I’d want to be is a rifle armed guy in an active, dangerous scene wearing plain clothes with no LE identifiers. The storage concerns are legit as well. It sounds like you’re back in investigations, just as a commander, if you’re in plain clothes without a rifle rack. Prior to going federal, where all the unmarked rides seem to have lock boxes for guns and armor, I was also stuck without a way to really secure the long gun in the vehicle once I got out of patrol. Can you get a sturdy, lockable case like a Pelican and handcuff it to the seat frames?

  10. #10
    I'm going to gripe here and you will probably delete it but whatever.

    First off why is this a thread, second I hear a lot of excuses, as a professional end users and LE you should be taking your own time to rectify these gaps in training period.

    1) For low light, there is no difference with the issue with a pistol or a long gun you are in plain clothes. You need to rectify this even for off duty stuff, Visi Blue makes a great product to address this that every LE should have - https://visiblue.net/products/the-po...ie-neon-police

    2) Scott lock is a great system to use that isn't vehicle specific or require modification to the vehicle - https://scottlockusa.com/

    3) Fix this, find a good course make structured training plans, dry fire, etc. you are a professional gun toter. Yes the agency should be better and offer more but that isn't an excuse.

    4) The long gun is a great tool and when it comes to the I think I'm going to need a gun I want a rifle period, not always possible but why short yourself an extremely capable option for your line of work.

    From a former professional LE gun toter. This and the Pistol RDS zero thread make me so sad about the state of this place and some of the loud voices here that quite frankly need to shut up.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •