Things You Know You Knew...

[Crazy Dane]

I found happiness and joy with the 38-44 loads. if I am in the woods with a .357, this is what I have in the cylinder and most likely in a spare speed loader.


The Elmer Keith load for the Lyman 358429 170gr bullet was 13.5gr of 2400. I started with 12gr and 12.5gr loads. After testing, there is no need to seek further. Due to limited .38 special brass and 3 revolvers to shoot, I only had enough to test 5 rounds of each charge per gun. 10 yards to target, 10ft to chronograph.

12.5 grains 2400

Ruger GP100 WC 3" - 1288, good accuracy. covered all 5 with a 2" paster.

Colt Python 4" - 1363, 2.5" group, could be the shooter. I was surprised at the lack of felt recoil with the Colt. If Colt will produce a 2.5 to 3 inch Python I will sell my Rugers.

Ruger SP101 2.25" - 1218, Worst group out of the 3 at 4". This load is not intended for this gun, just curious.

12 grains of 2400

Ruger GP100 WC 3" - 1195, just under a 2" group.

Colt Python 4" - 1289, 1.5" group, see why its becoming my fav?

Ruger SP101 2.25" - 1104, great group, sub 2" but over 4" high from POA.

.38-44 Learning has occurred! (pistol-forum.com)

[03RN]

Keep in mind some of the "sweet spot" load may not be the load per se, but the bullet sizing vs throat and groove diameter.

The Keith designed 429421 doesnt run in a Browning 92 in magnum cases, but is fine in 44 spl cases, and feeds fine in the few Ive run through it. The cartridge stop on the 92 carrier can be modified to accept longer cartridges, Keith mentioned someone doing it in his book Sixguns, and ive seen it mentioned by people in this century. Id guess the 357s can also be so modified.

Interesting. I'll look into that. I've thought about trying out some 270gr swc in my .45 m92. I think I've loaded as heavy as 325gr lbt in it with no issues. I wonder if the heavier swc would be fine.

[03RN]

I found happiness and joy with the 38-44 loads. if I am in the woods with a .357, this is what I have in the cylinder and most likely in a spare speed loader.


The Elmer Keith load for the Lyman 358429 170gr bullet was 13.5gr of 2400. I started with 12gr and 12.5gr loads. After testing, there is no need to seek further. Due to limited .38 special brass and 3 revolvers to shoot, I only had enough to test 5 rounds of each charge per gun. 10 yards to target, 10ft to chronograph.

12.5 grains 2400

Ruger GP100 WC 3" - 1288, good accuracy. covered all 5 with a 2" paster.

Colt Python 4" - 1363, 2.5" group, could be the shooter. I was surprised at the lack of felt recoil with the Colt. If Colt will produce a 2.5 to 3 inch Python I will sell my Rugers.

Ruger SP101 2.25" - 1218, Worst group out of the 3 at 4". This load is not intended for this gun, just curious.

12 grains of 2400

Ruger GP100 WC 3" - 1195, just under a 2" group.

Colt Python 4" - 1289, 1.5" group, see why its becoming my fav?

Ruger SP101 2.25" - 1104, great group, sub 2" but over 4" high from POA.

.38-44 Learning has occurred! (pistol-forum.com)

Well nutz. I might need to try out some .38 brass with those 170s.

[Malamute]

Interesting. I'll look into that. I've thought about trying out some 270gr swc in my .45 m92. I think I've loaded as heavy as 325gr lbt in it with no issues. I wonder if the heavier swc would be fine.

Here is the part in question.



Note that as its cut rearward to allow a longer cartridge to work, it also gets shorter height wise. It apparently can be done without drama, but when I realized I could use the same bullets in 44 spl cases with no modification it took some of the spark out of that project. I also recently picked up one of the 429215 Lyman 2 cavity moulds, the need also diminished further.

Keith designed some good bullets, but they are by no means the only good bullet designs. Ive expanded my horizons a bit with a couple other moulds that remove some of the issues mentioned with the Keith designs, the 358156 being the 38 option, with gas check capability for carbine loads if desired.

[03RN]

Here is the part in question.



Note that as its cut rearward to allow a longer cartridge to work, it also gets shorter height wise. It apparently can be done without drama, but when I realized I could use the same bullets in 44 spl cases with no modification it took some of the spark out of that project. I also recently picked up one of the 429215 Lyman 2 cavity moulds, the need also diminished further.

Keith designed some good bullets, but they are by no means the only good bullet designs. Ive expanded my horizons a bit with a couple other moulds that remove some of the issues mentioned with the Keith designs, the 358156 being the 38 option, with gas check capability for carbine loads if desired.

Actually, thinking about it more I realized the problem was feeding it into the chamber. The bullet hits the top of the chamber and it doesn't feed

[Malamute]

Actually, thinking about it more I realized the problem was feeding it into the chamber. The bullet hits the top of the chamber and it doesn't feed

OK, different solution. The previous post addressed the cartridge being too long to feed from the magazine and rise to the chamber to feed.

A guy on the leverguns forum figured out how to reduce the problem of the top of a fat bullet hanging up on the top of the chamber, he made a trough or groove in the top front of the carrier that allows the nose of the cartridge to lay slightly lower.

Like this



or this



I think its occurred to more than one person, Ive seen it mentioned other places. Part of the issue is we are making the action work with cartridges it wasnt designed for. The 44-40 and 38-40 are bottleneck cartridges. in the 44-40 its not very noticeable, but its there, enough to help it feed better, and the bullet shape was not too wide that it hindered feeding, like some of our modern heavy bullets can.

[358156hp]

Just throwing up a quick pic to help people who may be trying to visualize the two designs side by side. I've posted them before. I'll look to see if I have any 44 pics to offer.

[entropy]

Those are some healthy crimps.

I have crimp envy now...

[03RN]

OK, different solution. The previous post addressed the cartridge being too long to feed from the magazine and rise to the chamber to feed.

A guy on the leverguns forum figured out how to reduce the problem of the top of a fat bullet hanging up on the top of the chamber, he made a trough or groove in the top front of the carrier that allows the nose of the cartridge to lay slightly lower.

Like this



or this



I think its occurred to more than one person, Ive seen it mentioned other places. Part of the issue is we are making the action work with cartridges it wasnt designed for. The 44-40 and 38-40 are bottleneck cartridges. in the 44-40 its not very noticeable, but its there, enough to help it feed better, and the bullet shape was not too wide that it hindered feeding, like some of our modern heavy bullets can.

That seems manageable. Thank you

[Hambo]

I’m glad I’m not the only one. Lol

I now have a supply of Montana #358429’s I’m going to have to find a load for using .38 cases. The Dan Wesson holds too much sentimental value to beat up using heavy loads.

This is why you need a Contender.