Things You Know You Knew...

[entropy]

...but didn’t know them when you needed to know them.

Like #358429 when loaded in a .357 case is too big to fit in an N-frame cylinder.

Luckily, I had only gone thru a dozen or so before I said “Gee...those look kinda big.” I’ll either set them aside, or shoot them in my Dan Wesson. Followed them up with a test range of #358156GC and H110.

I’m trying to find a nice heavy field load for my M28.

[Flamingo]

Wow! They look awesome though!

[358156hp]

As you may know, 358429 predates the 357 magnum cartridge. Keith designed it primarily for the 38-44 which uses a 38 SPL length case in the same length cylinder as the (now) Model 27 & 28. When the 357 was being developed, S&W asked Phil Sharpe to design a bullet, and assist them with loading data. Good ol' Phil took Keiths SWC design and with the help of George Hensley re-drew the design to 5/6ths of the original Keith dimensions to fit the S&W cylinder. This bullet became the H&G 51, which is also a very fine design, and weighs in at approx. 160 grains instead of the original 173 gr. as designed by Keith.

Needless to say, Elmer and Phil never did care much for each other.

To make 358429 fit the shorter cylinder, it is necessary to reduce your powder charge, and seat the bullet deeper in the case to allow crimping over the nose, or simpler yet load 38-44 level loads in 38 Spl cases in a 38-44 or 357 chambered gun. I've always found 38-44 loads to shoot more accurately for me than 357 loads anyway. I especially like Skeeters version with 358156.

[mmc45414]

Decades ago when I was just a lad I learned this lesson (not the same bullet) after loading about 350 rounds on my Rockchucker that wouldn't fit in my Security Six, or my dad's Python. I forget what exactly I borrowed that they fit in, but my painstakingly constructed long term supply turned into a 15min session of blasting at cans and dirt clods on the backstop.

At least this was back when primers were on the shelf and probably cost a penny.

[entropy]

358156hp,

I always look forward to your posts. It’s like opening a history book of shooting. Thanks for the insights.

I’ve tried the #358429 with .38spl cases and didn’t have much luck. Accuracy was mediocre at best. I’m sure I just haven’t found the “sweet spot” yet. I previously tried both Unique and 2400. The 2400 was especially unimpressive...the Unique perhaps showed some promise. I’ve got #7 and #9 on the shelf too, (for the .357) but powder availability being what it is, I hate to burn half a pound looking for that sweet spot. The Unique is not a problem, plenty of that. Keep trying I guess. I’m using H110 now with the .357 cases.

mmc,

It’s always the case that my latest project uses components I have the least of on the shelf...

[03RN]

I'm very happy with them in k frames. Unfortunately they don't function in M92s either.

[okie john]

Decades ago when I was just a lad I learned this lesson (not the same bullet) after loading about 350 rounds on my Rockchucker that wouldn't fit in my Security Six, or my dad's Python. I forget what exactly I borrowed that they fit in, but my painstakingly constructed long term supply turned into a 15min session of blasting at cans and dirt clods on the backstop.

At least this was back when primers were on the shelf and probably cost a penny.

I did this with a Model 28 and an ancient semi-progressive Posness-Warren.


Okie John

[Malamute]

Keep in mind some of the "sweet spot" load may not be the load per se, but the bullet sizing vs throat and groove diameter.

The Keith designed 429421 doesnt run in a Browning 92 in magnum cases, but is fine in 44 spl cases, and feeds fine in the few Ive run through it. The cartridge stop on the 92 carrier can be modified to accept longer cartridges, Keith mentioned someone doing it in his book Sixguns, and ive seen it mentioned by people in this century. Id guess the 357s can also be so modified.

[mmc45414]

I did this with a Model 28 and an ancient semi-progressive Posness-Warren.

And my wife's cousin's Highway Patrolman might have been one of the guns I tried to shoot them in. Now I cannot remember what they eventually fit in. The things you forget in the span of 35-40 years...

[entropy]

I’m glad I’m not the only one. Lol

I now have a supply of Montana #358429’s I’m going to have to find a load for using .38 cases. The Dan Wesson holds too much sentimental value to beat up using heavy loads.