P&S #292 "The Applicability of Small Caliber Pistols"

[HCM]

That makes more sense but it's somewhat at odds with an earlier comment that these 'limp wrist test' videos are irrelevant? I mean it is literally doing exactly that, not giving the gun a solid platform to use the recoil energy to drive the slide to the rear forcefully.

They are to a degree but the actual conditions can be more egregious that YT videos can replicate. Just because a pistol passes the YouTube limp wrist test doesn’t necessarily mean it could not fail under actual conditions.


On another note, I was thinking about Wayne Dobbs’s comments about the two second increments with nothing much within two seconds one opponent normally gains some type of advantage over the other kept similar to what is seen in contact sports. That doesn’t necessarily mean everything will be over in two seconds but by that time somebody has gained an advantage through distance cover position etc.

If you think about the majority group I mentioned in the startled gunfight videos they get startled and then tomorrow within two seconds they are either getting to cover, move-in OK to get better position before they are overcoming there startle assessing and applying their training in the next two second cycle.

The two second cycle Wayne described resonated with me because it sounds just like the way Colonel Boyd described fighting as a series of competing / recurring time cycles in the form of OODA loops.

[JHC]

I wonder if the same number of malfs would occur in Gen 5 pistols, given how much more robust their ejection/extraction is?

I chuckled at the title of this thread, because for decades I was led to believe that the 9 mm was a small caliber pistol.

.22 is the new 9mm


ETA one more time "sacrificing life experiences" due to carrying a service pistol is just ludicrous. Had to say that one more time. And I'm packing my 317 as a primary around the house! I'm not hostile to the concepts but don't over do it guys.

[JHC]

I sure hope Federal does a .22 magnum Punch product like the .22 LR

[tlong17]

Shot some Punch out of my 22lr LCR today.

Was putting a mini fireball out the end for me. Cool.

No clue if it's going to drop an elephant at 50 paces, but cool.

[frozentundra]

ETA one more time "sacrificing life experiences" due to carrying a service pistol is just ludicrous. Had to say that one more time. And I'm packing my 317 as a primary around the house! I'm not hostile to the concepts but don't over do it guys.

I've sacrificed life experiences because of carrying a pistol. I've missed out on the National Parks of California, stayed out of Canada, and avoided traveling through New York state on my motorcycle, which also kept me out of Vermont and Maine. I know this isn't exactly what you're talking about, just a regretful observation.


The thing I'm beginning to have some trouble with regarding service pistols is advising a 21 year old civilian, perhaps small of stature, with a generally low risk profile, to strap one around their waist for 50 years to protect their health and well-being. I'm not sure it's the healthiest thing to do if I think about it in a larger context. Pressure, weight distribution, posture, fluidity, range of motion will all be affected to some degree. If a person really enjoys it, or feels otherwise compelled, then more power to them. I'm just starting to think there are probably more ergonomically balanced solutions that would still allow most people to protect themselves pretty darn well.

I'm thinking about optimizing for overall health and longevity vs. LE or Military level capability. Perhaps more 'normal' Americans would actually learn to carry some type of gun to protect themselves if the overall gun culture pedagogy was relatively more focused on the former vs. the latter.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

I've sacrificed life experiences because of carrying a pistol. I've missed out on the National Parks of California, stayed out of Canada, and avoided traveling through New York state on my motorcycle, which also kept me out of Vermont and Maine. I know this isn't exactly what you're talking about, just a regretful observation.


The thing I'm beginning to have some trouble with regarding service pistols is advising a 21 year old civilian, perhaps small of stature, with a generally low risk profile, to strap one around their waist for 50 years to protect their health and well-being. I'm not sure it's the healthiest thing to do if I think about it in a larger context. Pressure, weight distribution, posture, fluidity, range of motion will all be affected to some degree. If a person really enjoys it, or feels otherwise compelled, then more power to them. I'm just starting to think there are probably more ergonomically balanced solutions that would still allow most people to protect themselves pretty darn well.

I'm thinking about optimizing for overall health and longevity vs. LE or Military level capability. Perhaps more 'normal' Americans would actually learn to carry some type of gun to protect themselves if the overall gun culture pedagogy was relatively more focused on the former vs. the latter.

This is exactly how I feel, you do make sacrifices to carry in my experience... especially having a family and small children. The route I've taken (sadly) is to just get lazy at times and go off body more than I really should. Hasn't bit me yet but I'm getting into the smaller snubs and pocket pistols just to prevent this. it's not what many would admit to here but it's been the truth with how stretched thin, exhausted and beat up I've been feeling lately. I'm run down but making the commitment to always have SOMETHING on me at all times from now on.

[frozentundra]

This is exactly how I feel, you do make sacrifices to carry in my experience... especially having a family and small children. The route I've taken (sadly) is to just get lazy at times and go off body more than I really should. Hasn't bit me yet but I'm getting into the smaller snubs and pocket pistols just to prevent this. it's not what many would admit to here but it's been the truth with how stretched thin, exhausted and beat up I've been feeling lately. I'm run down but making the commitment to always have SOMETHING on me at all times from now on.

If you go about this with a well reasoned approach, I'm sure you'll be in good shape.

In a world of nutnfancys, be a Claude Werner.

[JCN]

This is exactly how I feel, you do make sacrifices to carry in my experience... especially having a family and small children. The route I've taken (sadly) is to just get lazy at times and go off body more than I really should. Hasn't bit me yet but I'm getting into the smaller snubs and pocket pistols just to prevent this. it's not what many would admit to here but it's been the truth with how stretched thin, exhausted and beat up I've been feeling lately. I'm run down but making the commitment to always have SOMETHING on me at all times from now on.

This is why I have a Taurus View revolver in pocket.

[Gun Mutt]

Shot some Punch out of my 22lr LCR today.

Was putting a mini fireball out the end for me. Cool.

No clue if it's going to drop an elephant at 50 paces, but cool.

My experience this weekend as well. Much more flash and thump than any .22LR I've ever fired...I like it in my LCR a lot.

[JHC]

I've sacrificed life experiences because of carrying a pistol. I've missed out on the National Parks of California, stayed out of Canada, and avoided traveling through New York state on my motorcycle, which also kept me out of Vermont and Maine. I know this isn't exactly what you're talking about, just a regretful observation.


The thing I'm beginning to have some trouble with regarding service pistols is advising a 21 year old civilian, perhaps small of stature, with a generally low risk profile, to strap one around their waist for 50 years to protect their health and well-being. I'm not sure it's the healthiest thing to do if I think about it in a larger context. Pressure, weight distribution, posture, fluidity, range of motion will all be affected to some degree. If a person really enjoys it, or feels otherwise compelled, then more power to them. I'm just starting to think there are probably more ergonomically balanced solutions that would still allow most people to protect themselves pretty darn well.

I'm thinking about optimizing for overall health and longevity vs. LE or Military level capability. Perhaps more 'normal' Americans would actually learn to carry some type of gun to protect themselves if the overall gun culture pedagogy was relatively more focused on the former vs. the latter.

You're right that isn't at all what I'm talking about. Because as the argument goes carrying a micro gun in your scenarios is just as prohibited as carrying a G19.

I think the .22's are super cool options as DB notes in the vid.