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Thread: Shotgun experts, help with patterning, i.e. why do I shoot right?

  1. #1
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    Shotgun experts, help with patterning, i.e. why do I shoot right?

    I recently got my new shotgun, a Beretta 1301 Comp 24". I intend this to be my "lots of things" shotgun. Due to my previous history with a Benelli M1 that I shot good with when I was fat and after losing 100 lbs of fat, could not hit anything with, I thought I should pattern this before taking it hunting in the fall.

    Well, I patterned it and I was shooting about 6" high and 2" right with it. So, I took the stock off, switched the shims to SX cast, 65mm drop from the factory DX cast, 60mm drop and added the 1/2" spacer back giving me 14" LOP, from the 13.5" LOP previous.

    I patterned it again and I am good enough on the elevation but I am STILL shooting to the right, even with cast on. So I tried shooting it "free recoil", or as close to as I could rig it up. I put it on bags and just sighted down the rib and pulled the trigger without holding the forearm or grip. That put me dead on for "windage", elevation was a little high but that was probably because of how I was trying to stay off the stock. (Cycled fine by the way)

    I also tried out my Dad's early 80's vintage Browning BPS (14.5" LOP, factory stock w/Limbsaver) that I have always seemed to shoot the best with as well as my brother's Maxus (14.25" LOP I think factory stock settings). The Maxus doesn't fit me at all. The toe of the stock digs into my arm and it is very uncomfortable to shoot.

    As shown in the results below, I shoot the BPS similarly to how I shoot the 1301. My brother's Maxus has the most centered pattern but it is also with a Mod choke rather than a full, not sure if the greater spread at 13 yards might be masking the center. I also feel I pulled down and right on one of the shots, my wobble was more with the Maxus and I got a true surprise break on the trigger.

    All of the shots were roughly 13 yards from the muzzle and the BPS and 1301 were both shot with full chokes with a mixture of low brass Remington/Federal/Win #7.5 shot cheap promo loads (might have been a #8 mixed in). Three shots per target.

    I also had my brother shoot my gun and other than him shooting really high with it (big fat head), his pattern was well centered.

    I think it is something I am doing with my form/head position/trigger pull/recoil anticipation/etc, but I am not sure what.

    Do any of you sporting clays experts know what I am doing wrong without actually seeing me doing it wrong?

    For reference I am 5'11, 155ish lbs, 29-30" waist, narrow face/head.

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  2. #2
    Could be a cheek weld issue, as you surmised.. If you're not tight to the stock, you'll be moving your front sight to compensate for your eye position.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Crow Hunter View Post
    The toe of the stock digs into my arm and it is very uncomfortable to shoot.
    Arm or shoulder?

    This is pretty rudimentary and I'm sure your well beyond first steps, but, what the heck:

    Try keeping your head erect, gold the shotgun with the bead in front of your eye - eye, bead, target relationship - and stock at waist level - international ready position - keep the head erect and the bead on target as you rotate the stock up to your check. Push the shotgun forward, with the bead still on target if the shotgun contacts your body, dont torque the stock left or right, it needs to come straight up. When the stock contacts your check, head still erect, pull it straight back into the shoulder. If your like most folks, the toe of the stock is in your shoulder and a bit of the heel is probably visible, that's okay.

    Do that dry a couple times then go live, the goal is to be able to break the shot as soon as the stock hits your cheek.

    This is more a people shooting technique than a wing shooting technique, but I manage to hit the occasional clay shooting this way.

    ETA: a lot of folks bury the stock in there shoulder and get too far out on their shoulder, therefore they don't have good bead alignment if they are shooting a rib, or good rear sight plane (top of receiver) bead alignment if they are shooting a non-rib barrel.

    Extra ETA: You asked for experts, I'm not.
    Last edited by DDTSGM; 05-14-2022 at 06:09 PM.
    Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Lehr View Post
    Arm or shoulder?

    This is pretty rudimentary and I'm sure your well beyond first steps, but, what the heck:

    Try keeping your head erect, gold the shotgun with the bead in front of your eye - eye, bead, target relationship - and stock at waist level - international ready position - keep the head erect and the bead on target as you rotate the stock up to your check. Push the shotgun forward, with the bead still on target if the shotgun contacts your body, dont torque the stock left or right, it needs to come straight up. When the stock contacts your check, head still erect, pull it straight back into the shoulder. If your like most folks, the toe of the stock is in your shoulder and a bit of the heel is probably visible, that's okay.

    Do that dry a couple times then go live, the goal is to be able to break the shot as soon as the stock hits your cheek.

    This is more a people shooting technique than a wing shooting technique, but I manage to hit the occasional clay shooting this way.

    ETA: a lot of folks bury the stock in there shoulder and get too far out on their shoulder, therefore they don't have good bead alignment if they are shooting a rib, or good rear sight plane (top of receiver) bead alignment if they are shooting a non-rib barrel.

    Extra ETA: You asked for experts, I'm not.
    I should have said shoulder, not arm. To see flat down the rib I have to have the stock high enough on my shoulder the toe is right on the "meat" of my shoulder rather than below it like with the BPS and 1301. I haven't shot it very often because it is uncomfortable for me to shoot. I am not sure if he has adjusted the stock on it or not.

    I am am looking for any help, even non expert if it can give me any ideas on what I might be doing wrong.

    It is very possible that I have always shot like this since the only other shotgun I have ever "patterned" was an old Stevens 311 20ga SxS that I did many years ago to see what each barrels constriction was. It amounted to me firing at the tin roof of an old barn.

    Prior to this I have always just shot and did "good enough". Prior to losing 100 lbs I did a couple of 20+ crow hunts without dipping into the extra box of shells I take with me on hunts. So I wasn't missing too often with my old M1 Benelli. Afterwards, if I made 1 in 5 shots I was growing good. I tried all the stock shim options and that made it worse.

    So I went back to the old BPS that I learned to shoot with growing up and did fine. I kept reading about the 1301 here and the recoil reduction. It definitely has noticeably less recoil than the BPS and the Maxus.

    I just can't figure out why I keep shooting to the right.

    When I close my eyes and mount the gun it is lined up straight down the rib when I open my eyes. I am thinking I am doing something when I am pulling the trigger. Just not sure what or how to correct it.

    Maybe pulling the stock in when I fire in anticipation of recoil? Everything I have read though says that usually a right handed person will shoot low left on recoil anticipation.

    However I might not be searching the right thing since most of the search results seem to center around cast off/on more than anything.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mac View Post
    Could be a cheek weld issue, as you surmised.. If you're not tight to the stock, you'll be moving your front sight to compensate for your eye position.
    I think I am pretty tightly cheeked on the stock. Wouldn't I shoot left if I was off the stock too much since I am a right handed shooter? Eye is the rear sight and all.

    I don't think I am over the stock though as I am not getting cheek slap or punched in the jaw/cheek but I might be.

    Or are you saying something else?

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