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Thread: cheap-ish 870 Alert

  1. #11
    I Demand Pie Lex Luthier's Avatar
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    Dan, that is great news. (No surprise about the Cabelas experience. Since the Bass Pro merger, they are far less satisfying to visit and it seems that morale and efficiency are lower among the staff. Glad they took care of you.)

    It's good to hear that the ejectors have been seen to already. I've never seen the flexi-tab installation performed, and don't really understand what it entails, nor how the action bars might ease or roughen the cycling.
    So I look forward to any details you share about the refurbishing and tuning process.

    Cheers! <raises coffee cup>
    "If I ever needed to hunt in a tuxedo, then this would be the rifle I'd take." - okie john

    "Not being able to govern events, I govern myself." - Michel De Montaigne

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Luthier View Post
    It's good to hear that the ejectors have been seen to already. I've never seen the flexi-tab installation performed, and don't really understand what it entails, nor how the action bars might ease or roughen the cycling.

    So I look forward to any details you share about the refurbishing and tuning process.

    Cheers! <raises coffee cup>
    Sometimes when loading an 870 the shooter won't push the shell far enough into the magazine tube for the shell to be retained by the shell latch. In other cases the shell latches, for some reason or other, usually wear or crud build up, allow a second shell to follow the one being chambered onto the shell carrier. In both cases you end up with a shell on the shell carrier with the bolt forward.

    On non-flexi-tab shotguns there isn't enough room for the bolt to be brought to the rear and allow the 'double-fed' shell to chamber. When this happened one method of clearing the stoppage was removal of the mag tube end cap, magazine spring retainer and spring, follower, and shells. This was sometimes sporty depending on if a round was chamber, and how many rounds were compressing the spring.

    For exigent circumstances, think gunfight with a round fired and unable to cycle the shotgun, we trained officers to engage the safety, take a knee, and angle the shotgun so the muzzle is away from the face. In this position, with support hand on the forearms and making sure to hit the edge of the recoil pad square on the ground the officer would mortar the shotgun, forcing the bolt to the rear and allowing the round on the shell carrier to be chambered.

    This was rough on shotguns, we never broke a stock, but after numerous repetitions the shell carrier would be out of alignment for feeding and chambering and need to be adjusted. The first fix I saw was milling a slot down the middle of the shell carrier allowing the insertion of a thin blade screwdriver used to push the shell back into the magazine tube (or at least far enough forward that the shell carrier could be pushed up and the shell could be pushed into the mag tube. Obviously, this was a firearms instructor fix, not much use in the gunfight situation.

    Around 1984 Remington came out with the flexi-tab system. It consists of three parts: a shell carrier with a u-shaped tab cut into the carrier, a bolt with a notch cut into the front of the bolt at the bottom of the breech face and a bolt slide with clearance notches which allow the bolt to tilt slightly upward while clearing the 'double-feed.' (pics from Rem870.com)

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    We would set these up on the range, with the flexi-tab system the shooter really doesn't notice the 'double-feed.'

    ETA: Installation is straight forward enough. You simply remove the carrier pivot tube (it's where the front pin goes through the trigger plate) and lift it out. In doing this make sure to control the carrier dog plunger (before removing the carrier pivot tube flip the carrier up and down and watch the action of the carrier dog which is on the right rear of the carrier). You will have to remove the carrier dog and reinstall it on the flexi-tab carrier. The bolt and bolt slide are simple parts swaps.
    Last edited by DDTSGM; 04-20-2022 at 03:19 PM.
    Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....

  3. #13
    I Demand Pie Lex Luthier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Lehr View Post
    Sometimes when loading an 870 the shooter won't push the shell far enough into the magazine tube for the shell to be retained by the shell latch. In other cases the shell latches, for some reason or other, usually wear or crud build up, allow a second shell to follow the one being chambered onto the shell carrier. In both cases you end up with a shell on the shell carrier with the bolt forward.

    On non-flexi-tab shotguns there isn't enough room for the bolt to be brought to the rear and allow the 'double-fed' shell to chamber. When this happened one method of clearing the stoppage was removal of the mag tube end cap, magazine spring retainer and spring, follower, and shells. This was sometimes sporty depending on if a round was chamber, and how many rounds were compressing the spring.

    For exigent circumstances, think gunfight with a round fired and unable to cycle the shotgun, we trained officers to engage the safety, take a knee, and angle the shotgun so the muzzle is away from the face. In this position, with support hand on the forearms and making sure to hit the edge of the recoil pad square on the ground the officer would mortar the shotgun, forcing the bolt to the rear and allowing the round on the shell carrier to be chambered.

    This was rough on shotguns, we never broke a stock, but after numerous repetitions the shell carrier would be out of alignment for feeding and chambering and need to be adjusted. The first fix I saw was milling a slot down the middle of the shell carrier allowing the insertion of a thin blade screwdriver used to push the shell back into the magazine tube (or at least far enough forward that the shell carrier could be pushed up and the shell could be pushed into the mag tube. Obviously, this was a firearms instructor fix, not much use in the gunfight situation.

    <snip>

    We would set these up on the range, with the flexi-tab system the shooter really doesn't notice the 'double-feed.'

    ETA: Installation is straight forward enough. You simply remove the carrier pivot tube (it's where the front pin goes through the trigger plate) and lift it out. In doing this make sure to control the carrier dog plunger (before removing the carrier pivot tube flip the carrier up and down and watch the action of the carrier dog which is on the right rear of the carrier). You will have to remove the carrier dog and reinstall it on the flexi-tab carrier. The bolt and bolt slide are simple parts swaps.
    Ok, so it doesn't actually eliminate the possibility of a double feed, but makes it possible to cycle the action through one? Sounds like a win!

    Thanks for the detailed explanation! Was it the FDE stocked one that had the rough cycling? They had trigger locks on both when I saw them, but I think I remember that one being a little less loose feeling.
    Again, I look forward to any in-progress work you care to share.
    "If I ever needed to hunt in a tuxedo, then this would be the rifle I'd take." - okie john

    "Not being able to govern events, I govern myself." - Michel De Montaigne

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Luthier View Post
    So I look forward to any details you share about the refurbishing and tuning process.
    After swapping parts around I determined that the reason the one shotgun was cycling roughly was because the action bars were out of alignment.

    There were some 'chatter' marks on them so I stoned the action bars and then adjusted the action bars by using a solid piece of stock as a babbitt and tapping to fit the bars into the receiver. They were somewhat crushed in at the front of the bars. I wonder if that was done when they installed the Magpul forearms.

    In the next couple days I'll get them to the range and zero with slugs and then see how they pattern with buck.

    Next step will be bead-blasting and applying moly resin. Luckily I have some grey-green for the one with black furniture and some burnt-bronze for the FDE furniture. Kind of curious if the bronze and FDE will match up okay.

    ETA: probably as a result of cleaning shotguns en masse and getting parts mixed up one of the shotguns has a flexitab bolt and slide, so it just needs the modified shell carrier to complete the conversion.
    Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....

  5. #15
    I Demand Pie Lex Luthier's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update, Dan. It sounds like they really went to the right place!

    (Dan's House Of Happy Shotties)
    "If I ever needed to hunt in a tuxedo, then this would be the rifle I'd take." - okie john

    "Not being able to govern events, I govern myself." - Michel De Montaigne

  6. #16
    Site Supporter marcin's Avatar
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    Those are a heck of a deal. I just picked up an LE trade-in (Illinois State Patrol, I think?) Wingmaster on-line and it was more than those and had none of the upgraded bits. The bluing is in great shape, the action is tight, but it needs a flex tab kit conversion. I'm debating whether to keep the wooden furniture, as there's some wear and tear around the buttstock or go full Magpul, or maybe just send it to VangComp to have them work their magic on it.
    Last edited by marcin; 05-04-2022 at 06:00 PM.

  7. #17
    Member gato naranja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcin View Post
    I'm debating whether to keep the wooden furniture, as there's some wear and tear around the buttstock or go full Magpul...
    I blew off getting a Magpul stock and forend for a long time, but once I finally put a set on my pet 870P I wished I had done it sooner. I still prefer the old factory furniture's less angular appearance, but in all other respects - the ones that really matter to me nowadays - the Magpul set has been a big improvement. Originally, I installed a black set, but sold it and got an FDE set to break up the gun's outline a bit when out in the sticks.

    (I kept the old factory LE furniture, but it will not go back on as long as I am still actually using the gun.)

    After disposing of a carbine, I had an extra Blue Force Gear VCAS sling and HD swivel sitting around; it has ended up working out pretty well on the old cornsheller. The Magpul SGA stock and MOE forend are good kit.

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    gn

    "On the internet, nobody knows if you are a dog... or even a cat."

  8. #18
    took both of the beaters to the range and patterned with LE13200. Ran through 25 rounds on two steel 2/3 IPSC silhouettes at 15 yards. The one I put the cheap tru-glo's on needed some adjustment, but the other one shot to POA once I found what was left of the white on the dinged-up front sight. Both patterned great, hand- sized or a little smaller groups, easy to paint.

    Probably spent about 2/3 of the round shooting multiples with the one that was in the roughest shape when I got them since it had a green fiber optic front sight on it, still not as smooth as I'd like but greatly improved.

    This was the first time I've shot with the Magpul stocks. They are just what the doctor ordered for my wrist, first time in ages my wrist wasn't throbbing after shooting a shotgun.
    Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....

  9. #19
    Site Supporter SeriousStudent's Avatar
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    I really think this could be a great thread to sticky and put in the Ask The Armorer section. Dan's done us a very valuable service documenting his work here.

    Just my very humble opinion.

  10. #20
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    Dayton, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by gato naranja View Post
    I blew off getting a Magpul stock and forend for a long time, but once I finally put a set on my pet 870P I wished I had done it sooner. I still prefer the old factory furniture's less angular appearance, but in all other respects - the ones that really matter to me nowadays - the Magpul set has been a big improvement. Originally, I installed a black set, but sold it and got an FDE set to break up the gun's outline a bit when out in the sticks.

    (I kept the old factory LE furniture, but it will not go back on as long as I am still actually using the gun.)

    After disposing of a carbine, I had an extra Blue Force Gear VCAS sling and HD swivel sitting around; it has ended up working out pretty well on the old cornsheller. The Magpul SGA stock and MOE forend are good kit.

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    Even better that a Magpul SGA is a Magpul SGA with a Limbsaver pad.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
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