Ukraine wants the M4 carbine

[HCM]

Agreed. I don’t know what their pre-war or current stockpiles look like but I’m fairly confident that the countries that are open to supporting UKR have a better ability to start and maintain the push of large quantities of M4s and 5.56 then AKs and 5.45 or 7.62.

Plus, I’m sure they’d be happy to illustrate that they’re western backed and what easier way to do that than having soldiers outfitted with the same standard issue small arm as us?


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Yup. Half of NATO is using or transitioning to AR/M4 pattern rifles, mostly HK 416 variants.

Most of the other half are using SCARs or SCAR like rifles like the Beretta 160, Bren etc. which take STANAG mags.

[High Cross]

Just a guess, but they may be receiving aid from other NATO countries with STANAG.

5.56x45 and M16 magazines are the agreed STANAG cartridge and magazine for the individual Soldier. A quick read says rail systems are also standardized, or proposed to be standardized.

Everyone wants M4s. The Brit general issue is the L85 family of weapons, and UKSF tends to run M4s. Both are 5.56x45 and take M16 magazines. And UKSF's love of the Stoner rifle goes back to the 70s. According to wikiwhatsis many NATO countries, former Warsaw Pact countries and many European countries in general have at least some M4s in thier militaries and police. When your guys are training with other people, the students tend to want the same things the teachers have.

I mean, you can ask, right? They asked for and got Javelins by the hundreds, and you would think that they would have tons of RPG7s or whatever the current former ComBloc rocket launchers are laying around.

Just my $0.02, and worth exactly what you paid for it.

pat

Werent the SAS the first military purchaser of the AR-15 in the early 60s in Malaya? Here are somr pictured of SAS troopers in Borneo at that time http://wingedsoldiers.co.uk/sas-borneo/

[Rick R]

I wonder what happened to the lady from Kiev who allegedly bought a “hunting rifle” to help repel the Ruskies?

https://nypost.com/2022/01/26/ukrain...ight-for-kiev/

[HCM]

I wonder what happened to the lady from Kiev who allegedly bought a “hunting rifle” to help repel the Ruskies?

https://nypost.com/2022/01/26/ukrain...ight-for-kiev/

Don’t know but as mentioned up thread the UKR has been producing domestic AR-15 and AR-10 clones for several years.

Portions of their military and LE have been using M4, Tavor and SIG MCX for some time as well.

[UNM1136]

Werent the SAS the first military purchaser of the AR-15 in the early 60s in Malaya? Here are somr pictured of SAS troopers in Borneo at that time http://wingedsoldiers.co.uk/sas-borneo/

The reference I have handy mentions them using the SLR (FN-FAL) and going on a two week four man patrol with a single 20 round magazine each!!! I can't argue with the website you posted but wiki thing says McNamera was all in in January of 63. I just looked and my copy of Peter Dickens' "SAS: War in Southeast Asia" is about the post WWII reconstruction of the SAS and their involvement in the Borneo campaign and shows several SLRs and a single M16 type rifle. They were also using native crossbows and Browning A5s....You might well be right. Gen. Curtis LeMay of the USAF was a fan of the gun in 1960...And the controversy began...

ETA: the M16 wikiwhatsis does say the Brits were one of the first adopters of the AR15 during the Malaysian/Borneo Confrontation. My reference to the 70s was use in Northern Ireland by the SAS and 14th Int.

pat

[Jaywalker]

Good thoughts. There's a lot there I didn't know.

[4RNR]

Lol hilarious

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[Patrick Taylor]

The Ukraine Prez is well aware of the corruption in DC seeing as he is part of the club. Asking for something corrupt DC politicians get a cut of is much more likely to happen.

[TGS]

The Ukraine Prez is well aware of the corruption in DC seeing as he is part of the club. Asking for something corrupt DC politicians get a cut of is much more likely to happen.

We generally don't use tax money to pay a third-country to manufacture rifles for defense aid, and I fail to see how that amounts to corruption.

[DrkBlue]

Two observations:

1) Ukraine has been at war in the Eastern provinces since 2014. There is a generation of young and not so young soldiers who know what works. Those guys and gals have wheeled out water cooled Maxims, state of the art in 1890s, alongside the Javelins.

2) The Ukrainian Army is juggling a slew of rifle calibers - 7.62x54mm, 7.62x51mm, 7.62x39mm, 5.56x45mm and 5.45x39mm. I am sure there are some boutiques too - 9x39mm, 12.7/14.5mm anti material, probably a .300Win or .338 Lapuas as well.

I hope a few dozen pallets of M4s are being prepped in Anniston with DLA looking to place some big follow-on contracts here in the US.

For those not following the details… The dedication of the Brits is making the rest of the Western nations look like wimps.
The mop top is the British Prime Minister. The short guy told Biden “I don’t need a ride, I need ammunition.”
I assume it was Boeing C17 that flew the Prime Minister into Kyiv on Friday.