I use a light with an O ring on it, but I like Noner's method; something else to practice.Originally Posted by sickeness
I use a light with an O ring on it, but I like Noner's method; something else to practice.
Is the boy you were proud of the man you are?
Fimbo iliyo mkononi, ndio iuwayo nyoka!
I prefer the rubber O ring & belt clip combo that I got from Raven, it's on my work & not work lights.
If I'm not using either of those lights, pinning it against your body & working the pinkie around behind it works well (you can carry the light that way to begin with) or rolling it down to the bottoms of the fingers & trapping it there the thumb works too. Just depends on whether you need the thumb or not.
I've used the old Rogers-Surefire Method for twenty years using a Surefire light. It seems awkward at first, but once you master it, you really master it and it's easy. I realize with the rise of WML it's becoming a lost technique. I pinch between my index and middle fingers and actuate the tailcap with the meaty base of my thumb.
I messed with a lanyard for a while, but found it incredibly cumbersome. When I need to draw a gun and light simultaneously from my duty belt, I need to do it right now. I don't have time to slip a lanyard on my hand or wrist. I also found a light dangling form the lanyard, no matter how tightly it was cinched, to get in my way. I briefly tried the o-ring and Thyrm rings and found it only a moderate improvement.
Since I'm already pinching the light between my fingers, I just leave it there while executing reloads. I spent a bunch of time practicing it dry in the beginning. I've never bobbled a reload nor dropped the light doing this and it's become second nature, even under quite a bit of stress.
I shoot 2 night matches each fall. My experience is I would not count on ambient light being sufficient. I have a weapon mounted light/laser from CT which works great. But one of the shooters I have a lot of respect for uses a hand held w/ interesting mods. First it is a very short light. He said he does that so that when holding it between his off hand fingers it has a lot less tendency to sag from gravity. Second he has two sets of 3 o-rings on it. One triple o-ring set is right at the back end of the light. This set keeps the light from wiggling out from between his fingers. The other triple o-ring set is just forward enough that his fingers fit between the two o-ring sets. The forward set locks the light from wiggling the other direction. Since it is a small light w/ a small battery he uses a different light between shooting stages for reloads, walking, etc. And he puts in a new battery for each match.
Lanyard is definitely preferable, but during one low light training we were also taught to hold the light in the mouth during reloads.
Depends on how your hand interfaces with the light.
I use the Raven clip and O-ring on my 6P, and Pannone's technique with the SL PT1L-1AA.
"It's surprising how often you start wondering just how featureless a desert some people's inner landscapes must be."
-Maple Syrup Actual
When you need to draw a gun and light simultaneously you will really appreciate a WML.
We did the introduction to flashlight techniques during our building search block, which was before our dimlight range training. We introduced Rogers/Syringe, Harries and Chapman by curriculum, and most of us also added neck index and the old FBI. They all have advantages and disadvantages, based on shooter's hand size, flashlight size and style, plus the dexterity of the shooter.
After all is said and done, Harries is my preferred 'married hands' technique. Even though Harries is pretty much limited to tail cap lights (as does Rogers) it positions the light in the hand as most officers would be holding the light when checking documents, etc.
Regardless of technique used, our range training involved grounding the light on the chest/sternum, drawing the pistol to whatever you call the muzzle level and down range position and then assuming the flashlight ready position.
For drawing both light and pistol at same time I prefer drawing to neck index and then transitioning to another technique if warranted. What we called drop drills invariably ended with the shooter firing from some form of neck index.
In its pure form, Harries is essentially a one-handed technique with the back of the hands together and the butt of the pistol resting somewhat on the support wrist/forearm -
You can get additional support and recoil control by simply raising the support elbow and sliding the support forearm forward allowing the hand and wrist to slide up the front of your master hand. In this position most folks can feel the knuckles of their master hand on the wrist joint. Do kind of a push-pull between the two arms and you can improve recoil control to some degree, IMO, better than the pure Harries.
As for the subject of reloads with flashlights, I don't normally agree with retained mag reloads as they interject a degree of complexity that, for most shooters, is likely to degrade under stress. If you need to reload, job one is to reload, retaining the mag is secondary. If need be, you can take a knee, reload, then pick up the mag.
I understand that some course of fire may require a retained mag reload, in that case, with the Harries hold, I can use my thumb, index and middle finger to draw the new mag, and then grasp the old mag with my pinkie.
JMO, hope it is of some use to someone.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....
FWIW, when I trained with @Dagga Boy, he stated that when he was taught by Harries, the isometric tension was the integral part of the position, and that without the application of isometric tension, one wasn't actually utilizing the Harries.
1. Harrie's technique. 2. turn the light off. 3a. sidestep, kneel, or seek cover. 3b. perform mag exchange. 4. Do whatever it takes to not get shot.
Thanks for all the replies and cues to technique. Now, for this particular match - I decided to shoot my 642 with a CT grip. I was worried about speed loader reload and managing the light. I always wear a ball cap so I decided to get a cap clip on LED which is fairly bright. That will illuminated my hands, gun and speed loaders. Of course, this would get me killed on the street but it's game. Also, the light might come in useful for other nightly adventures.
Will have a hand held also as backup. See how this comes up. 12 rounds for the stage. So it's two reloads as we start loaded.
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