The first time we visited Alaska, before moving there, I carried a 5.5 Redhawk and my wife carried a SP101. Darryl says a SP101 in .327 with BB hard cast would be a great chest pack gun. I have a 2.75 329 Nighthawk for that.Originally Posted by entropy
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
I have carried a 3.06" SP-101 in a VM-2 at 4:30 and in a Mitch Rosen Workman at 3:00. I prefer the VM-2 for ease of draw and comfort, but the Workman is a surprisingly good holster for NPE.
What kind of holster do you carry it in?
I’m in. Thanks to DB, I have finally tried out Duluth Trading pants and I think pocket carry may finally be a realistic option for me. I routinely carry a 642-1 in the pocket in a PCS holster, or in an Icon AIWB. I also have a 43c and a LCR in .38. I do consider my 2.5 19-3 a snub, but I got it more for nostalgia and historical significance than necessarily for carry. I actually have a dry fire blog post in drafts that revolves (pun intended) around dry fire with my 642-1. I think my next revolver will probably be either an M&P 340 or possibly 340PD, simply because of the weight. I might have to explore using the 43c for CCW, but I really need to put some more rounds through it before I trust it in that role. I have on occasion short stroked the trigger on my LCR, but never with a S&W.
I agree, but, IMO, a civilian is FAR more likely to be engaging a threat from a reactive posture, and at extreme close range.
Yup! That’s why I prefer to carry in a way that my hand can be on a pistol without anyone noticing. The lethality of a .380 was recently demonstrated in the trial of Curtis Reeves. While I have pistols in .22, .25 acp, and .380, .38 Special is my comfort threshold. I used to carry some really large pistols, but the odds of bringing one out in a reactive situation have led me to carry smaller models.
For a few years pre-pandemic, a J-frame saw probably 85% of my carry use. Every day to the office, and at the time I was working a lot in NPE parts of the Bay Area. So a M&P340 loaded with Black Hills wadcutters pretty much lived in my pocket during waking hours. It's light enough for pocket carry, there's no lock, and the tritium front sight and larger than typical rear trough make it worth the extra $$$. Downsides: The trigger sucks, and there's a hitch in the reset. I keep meaning to go in there and smooth things out a little, but these past two years of work from home means I've just gone to larger OWB alternatives instead when out and about.
I'm in the process of transitioning to a Colt King Cobra 3-inch for carry, after vetting for reliability the past few months. A lot of that is based on lifestyle changes and a resulting re-evaluation of carry needs. It's twice as heavy as the J-frame (28 oz vs 13 oz) but I'm a lot more accurate with it, and it just about disappears OWB, carried that way the weight is no more objectionable than a typical compact semi but without the boxy shape. I had the reset issue the first few days but was easily able to train out of it, and agree that short-stroking at least in this case is a function of too much time on semi-auto triggers. I've not had it happen in more than two years now. In high risk environments... I don't currently spend a lot of time in those, but have in the not too distant past... the J-frame still goes in the left pocket as a backup.
I've tried other things in the past. A 642 went to the first Revolver Roundup but I sold it not long after, it had the infernal lock and I didn't care for the sights. A little after that I found a good price on a SP-101 in 327 FM. It was OK with 32 Long or 32 H&R, but the blast was distinctly unpleasant with 327. Mostly I didn't like the trigger, so that one didn't stay for very long either.
Future, I'm tempted to try a 32 LCR. On the other hand, these days I like simple and I'm buying a lot less new stuff than even a couple years ago. The J-frame, the King Cobra, and one USP cover most of my current needs and we can only put three firearms on our permits here at one time anyway.
22LR, let me think about that a little. I have only larger 22LR revolvers currently, a S&W pre-17 that's fun to shoot, and an old single action that was an uncle's. Given how much time I spend on the trail and the types of potential threats here, right now I'm leaning against for any serious use. Although I do use a 22LR to cull non-native bullfrogs on project sites occasionally (our state project permits sometimes require it), they're quite good for that.
For those interested, during the gel shoot at the recent Revolver Roundup at Gunsite, Haggard used a 2” LCR to shoot the new 29 grain Punch round into a ballistic jell block covered with 4 layers of denim. It went about 11 inches. He also shot the 40 grain Velocitor round into the denim-covered jell and got just over 13 inches of penetration.
[I am getting old and forgetful but my notes seem to indicate that he also shot another 4 rounds of the Punch into bare jell and got 10.75, 11, 11.5, and 12.25 inches of penetration.]
He observed that the Velocitor had yawed some, and that the Velocitor projectiles tended to turn into a wadcutter-like profile upon impact. He also noted that he had never seen a Mini-mag or Velocitor fail to fire and that the Velocitor doesn’t feed in all autos but it is his “go to” in .22 revolvers.
Additionally, he shot a .32 Long by Buffalo Bore with a hard cast flat point (didn’t get the bullet weight) through the denim — I think through a 2” LCR .327. It went about 13 inches, doing a 180 degree turn and ending up backwards.
Personally, I stick with the .38 Special. The J- or D-frame snubs I have experience with don’t seem to misfire, though they were all made in the prior century and maybe that is a factor. A .38 LHP or WC gets into where it needs to, and they shoot to the sights of the old guns. Much of the new stuff is problematic in one or the other of those requirements.
One thing that is rarely mentioned is that the Frames of the 3rd gen Colts are shorter in height than those of the J-frames.
For those who prefer to wear jeans this enables the Colts to go into and come out of the support side front pocket much easier than the j-frames. The smooth front sight is also easier on the pocket lining than that of the serrated J-frame.
The D-frame’s ability to be reloaded with K-frame speedloaders made it a particularly useful weapon when paired with a service revolver back when many were restricted to wheelguns only.
Since those days are past, those advantages are largely moot now, but what remains relevant is the ability of a surreptitious draw with the snubby to deliver an LHP to the lead assailant’s vitals before he realizes what has happened.
I know of an older gentleman who doesn’t seem to carry his Glocks or 1911s religiously anymore. Instead, I see him standing around a lot with his hands in his pockets or sometimes with his thumb slipped up under his shirt front and hooked in his waistband. It worries me that he has gone soft in his old age and will get caught without a gun when he needs one. For some reason he doesn’t seem overly concerned.
On the Jframe/snubby life: this is where I have been for most of the past couple of decades. When I carry a semiauto, it isn’t much bigger, either: a G26.
Snubby in the pocket or ankle or even on the belt, especially an airweight (but I have carried a DS and a 60-9 Ladysmith) is a comfortable gun that gets things done. Pocket works in NPE, or as a method of carry that allows putting away in the parking lot prior to entering an “Absolutely Not, legal repercussions *will* be pursued” environment.
A first round shot shell in a J in the pocket is a good tool for snakes when hunting with a centerfire rifle or pistol, or even when just hiking.
On the .22: a friend of mine was once shot by an assailant with a .22. The bullet passed through his tricep and penetrated the trapezius, stopping against a rib. He chased the shooter away (not wise, but adrenaline and 20yo bravado do things).
My personal thoughts are those of someone who spends quite a few days afield per year. I hike and hunt, mostly on the southern U.S. border. Occasionally, I actually manage to find something worth shooting, and manage to do so. I use various appropriate, legal weapons for my hunts. Shotguns and centerfire rifles are reliable in putting animals and birds, large and small, on the ground when good marksmanship is applied. .22 pistols are not nearly as effective, even when proper attention to marksmanship is paid, even on small animals like rabbits and squirrels. Of course, the lethal targets on those animals are relatively small, but even so: unless a center of CNS or heart/lung destroying shot is made, they will run. My aunt, years and years ago, shot a .22 rifle at a German Shepherd that was attempting to pull down a foal in her corral. It ran and made it several hundred yards to the side of the nearest road before dropping.
All of that said, while I do hear the idea that breaking contact is the goal of the civilian self defense shooter, I do not trust the .22 to make a convincing argument to a lethal force attacker that breaking contact is what they need to do. In fact, unless physical abilities require use of the .22, I consider it a very poor choice in this role. After being shot by a calm shooter who takes the time to aim precisely, rabbits and squirrels that are not immediately killed or made incapable of further movement run and hide when shot, no matter what they are shot with. I see them run much more often when shot with .22s than other things. They are prey animals. Prey animals almost always run and hide from danger.
200# predators may choose to fight to overcome prey when hurt, especially if only given a minor injury. I think a .22 employed against a human attacker requires the same care and precision of accuracy to effect a stop as it would on a rabbit or squirrel or deer: CNS (ear/nose/throat) or heart shots (difficult task for a .22) only, because the 200# predator, shot through an arm or leg or gut, may choose to press the attack where a rabbit shot in the equivalent location will run.
I own two .22 revolvers (S&W M18 & Single Six), and really enjoy shooting them. I own a G44 as well - excellent for saving money while practicing my Glock shooting. I may acquire a Jframe .22 in the future, such as a 317, but unless physical abilities dictate that I must use a .22 for self defense at some undefined future date, I’m going to stick with .38 FGMM wadcutters in my 642 and 442 for my pocket revolver, and quality 9mm JHPs in my G26.
YMMV.
My two main J-Frames: A smith & Wesson 640 Pro and a 442. Different guns with different purposes.
The 640 Pro is for pocket carry. I load it with the Speer 135 grain +P Gold dot or the Federal 130 grain HST. I have heard mixed things about the .38 HST, so I went back to the Speer 135 grain +P Gold dots. I have not been carrying it as a pocket gun for a while because I had tendon sheath opening surgery my middle and ring finger back in October. Despite physical therapy, those fingers don't fully straighten enough in a manner to allow them to get into the pocket, grip the handgun, and draw it smoothly and quickly in a reliable fashion. I have now gone to the Kahr PM-9 for pocket carry. The Kahr PM-9's grip is slimmer so I can more easily slip my fingers around it in a pocket draw situation. Before I preferred the J-frame for pocket carry in a situation where I did not have to worry about a super flat profile--in which case I carried the Kahr. I am usually carrying a larger more capable gun IWB when I am carrying a gun in my pocket. But pocket carry allows quick access and allows me to have my hand in the pocket gripping the gun ready to draw if the situation warrants it.
The next gun is a S&W 442 Airweight with a clipdraw. This gun is strictly for throwing out the trash in the back in a relatively access controlled area when I am wearing sweats in the house. It is light weight so I can clip it onto the sweatpants without them being pulled down. Since the gun is super light weight, I keep it loaded with Federal Wadcutters to minimize recoil and maximize shot-to-shot recovery times.
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