Why choose to SBR vs AR pistol?

[LJP]

- What motivated you to go the SBR route, or what kept you from doing it?
- If SBR’d, how do you find the situation? Restrictions on use/travel?
- if I SBR a lower, can I easily change uppers? Calibers (5.56 to 300 BLK)?
- Does the process just involve submitting the E-form, and then getting the lower engraved once it’s approved? Or is there more that I’m not aware of?

For me, I just wanted one. As someone else said, if we ever get to the point of the feds knocking on my door, we’re well and truly screwed.
I’ve traveled with mine for training purposes, you just have to file the form 20 early enough. So it’s a planning issue.
I specifically SBR’d a “multi cal” marked lower. I know it doesn’t matter, but it’s an aesthetic issue for me. As I recall, you either need to be able to return the rifle to its original registered state, or change the Form 1. So I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t conceivably have multiple uppers, provided you kept the original it was registered with and provided you didn’t run into any constructive intent issues.
Yup, submit the paperwork and get the lower engraved.

[CleverNickname]

- What motivated you to go the SBR route, or what kept you from doing it?
- If SBR’d, how do you find the situation? Restrictions on use/travel?
- if I SBR a lower, can I easily change uppers? Calibers (5.56 to 300 BLK)?
- Does the process just involve submitting the E-form, and then getting the lower engraved once it’s approved? Or is there more that I’m not aware of?

- I have multiple short uppers for my M16 and if I just want to shoot in semi-auto it's nice to be able to swap on a several hundred dollar semi-auto lower instead of the M16. Also at the time when I started making SBRs, AR pistols weren't nearly as much of a thing because braces weren't invented yet.
- Travel is not particularly annoying. I can travel pretty far in Texas without going to another state, and a 5320.20 only takes 5 minutes to fill out if I want to take an SBR to another state. The ATF approves those relatively quickly compared to form 1's/4's (2-4 weeks).
- How long does it take for you to push two pins and swap an upper? If it's a "permanent" change, the ATF asks that you notify them, but there's no requirement to do so.
- That's pretty much it. Submitting an eForm1 requires fingerprints, but the ATF will send you the fingerprint cards free of charge, and there's nothing that says you can't take your own fingerprints so the cost is negligible. Also, I would suggest engraving it first, before approval.

[Bergeron]

Also, I would suggest engraving it first, before approval.

Following this thread with interest, and appreciate all the replies- may I ask why this order of operations is recommended?

[CleverNickname]

Following this thread with interest, and appreciate all the replies- may I ask why this order of operations is recommended?

1) If you send it somewhere to get it engraved (vs. somewhere local) and the lower gets lost in transit, then you've only lost a title I firearm instead of an SBR that you waited for forever.
2) If the engraver makes a mistake and misspells something then you can get it corrected before you submit the form 1, or you could use a different lower.

There's no legal issue with getting it engraved before approval; there's nothing preventing you from engraving your name and city/state on any firearm you own.

[jh9]

Re: the feds “knowing”…

I was resistant to any NFA items initially for the same reason, and then someone pointed out that if I ever bought a gun on a 4473, there was already a record that I had “a” gun, which would pretty much land me on the list anyway.

Yeah. Everyone here is on The List (tm).

If you're in this thread and pontificating about the "feds knowing" you've probably spent thousands of dollars at Brownells, or Midway or pick-a-gun-paraphernalia vendor. You probably have a state CCW/LTC/whatever. You probably have a USPSA/IDPA/NRA membership. Etc. You probably paid for them all with a card. Though in the latter cases cash/check/whatever doesn't matter.

Your financial records that get packaged and sold by your bank loudly indicates that you "have guns" (amongst other things). That's not really conspiracy-grade snark. This is Bank of America because they were the first search result. Plug in your bank/CU's name and "U.S. Consumer Privacy Notice" then look at the "can you limit sharing" column. Count up the "no" answers. Your transaction history is a product. That includes your gun-related transactions.

Getting down to the nitty gritty of exactly which guns you own outside of states with registration is a data problem that is almost unsolveable. Hell if you go back a couple decades I don't even have legitimate memory much less paper records of who I sold what to. And I'm not legally obligated to. So, it's a matter of "has guns" or "doesn't has guns". You all fit in the former category. The end. If "they" come knocking, they're not going to clean you out of the guns "they" know about and then leave you with your "off paper" FTF buy, or your Polymer80 build, or whatever.

Like they don't know about the Polymer80 kit you bought with a credit card but somehow do know about the paper 4473 you filled out 20 years and 3 moves ago that you only kept for a year and has changed hands a dozen times since. Your handful of NFA lowers being registered changes almost literally nothing.

[CleverNickname]

If "they" come knocking, they're not going to clean you out of the guns "they" know about and then leave you with your "off paper" FTF buy, or your Polymer80 build, or whatever.

That's where large-diameter PVC pipes, cosmoline and a shovel should already be in your plans.

[jh9]

That's where large-diameter PVC pipes, cosmoline and a shovel should already be in your plans.

Which could contain either a 4473'd gun you "lost", sold, "sold-wink-wink-nudge-nudge", "lost in a boating accident" or something built from a P80 kit you paid for in cash while wearing a trenchcoat and a fake mustache. It's all the same.

[TC215]

Yup, agreed.

It may feel like "conspiracy theories" but its not. The federal law enforcement agencies have a process that uses the 4473 form to easily find what you own if they want to know.

Not what you own, what you’ve purchased (if it was purchased or transferred through an FFL).

The ATF does the gun traces. They can be requested by any local, state, or federal agency.

[Paul Blackburn]

Easy button; for travel your CCW is your primary. That being said a 16" AR broken down and stowed in such away that it can be made ready quickly is legal almost everywhere. Not as cool but...has anyone here resorted to their a AR pistol, SBR, or carbine for self defense while traveling?

[GyroF-16]

Not what you own, what you’ve purchased (if it was purchased or transferred through an FFL).

The ATF does the gun traces. They can be requested by any local, state, or federal agency.

Speaking (writing) precisely - if a gun type and S/N is known, it can be traced to me if purchased involving a 4473.
Or “LE has gun, can find my name”


My concern is going on record that I own a particular gun- that is knowing my name, they can come up with a type and S/N, which is the reverse- “LE has my name, can find type and S/N”.

Do I have that right?

Just of more concern to me with an NFA item, easily becoming a politically “dangerous item that nobody should be allowed to own”.