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Thread: NP3 Update

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Peart View Post
    Seems like a good reason to just do hard chrome instead. Objectively it's one of the best firearm coatings on the planet in pretty much every way but it's also one of the most seldom seen
    Needs citation. What makes hard chrome objectively one of the best? In my readings, electroless nickel tends to have better corrosion resistance and better uniformity than hard chrome with less environmental hazards involved in the process, while losing out very slightly on durability and lubricity. Electroless nickel boron nitride will also have better lubricity and can have better durability, while still retaining the superior corrosion resistance and uniformity of standard EN, while electroless nickel PTFE tends to retain the superior lubricity, corrosion resistance, and uniformity aspects over hard chrome.

  2. #22
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    Choosing finishes is always an exercise in compromise. Hard chrome is very hard which is great for wear resistance but plates unevenly due to the need for the item being plated to be charged. Electrode shape, the state of the bath, and the skills of the people doing the finish are all key. Hard chrome is also permeable, and I have rusted a few hard chromed components, namely a 1911 mainspring housing. It is, of course, silver in color which some people do not like. I like the finish if it done by known good vendors.

    NP3 is much more corrosion resistant, plates uniformly, and has a high lubricity due to PTFE but is softer (yet harder than most slides and frames). It is a bit yellower but still silver. It can be applied to aluminum alloys if there is no anodized layer. NP3 Plus is even better as it has even more corrosion resistance and is harder. NP3 is expensive with limited vendor support. Love it but the loss of the Robar Companies means it is essentially no longer available to the individual. I have looked at CP II but not sent a pistol to have the finish applied.

    Nickel plating (not electroless) is corrosion resistant but subject to attack by copper solvents as copper is the base coat for the nickel plating. Nickel wears well until it does not and looks worse sooner than most.

    IonBond is very hard and deposits very uniformly. It really does not wear but needs to be oiled for maximum corrosion resistance. It is also available in multiple colors and can mimic bluing if the underlying surface is nicely polished. Expensive.

    Nitriding is great for corrosion resistance and hardness but even OEM designs but can suffer from dimensional changes and corrosion (see S&W M&P) with the QPQ process. I had to have two 1911 pistols refit after nitriding due to dimensional shifts. Nitriding is much better for carbon steel alloys than stainless alloys due to issues with corrosion after the second quench which is why stainless alloys usually now get just the one quench and polish.

    Cerakote is not as hard but is corrosion resistant, especially if coated over a Parkerized finish. It is available in multiple colors and is not too expensive. Lots of variants here, including Black T and the Wilson Armor Tuff offerings. I have been pleased with Black T over stainless on a Ruger SP101. After almost two decades of use, it still looks good and is protecting the metal.

    Bluing is pretty but abrades easily. A blued gun needs to be wiped down in humid environments to keep rust at bay. But nothing looks better.

  3. #23

    CCR

    I'd like to chime in on CCR. I've had two guns coated with them and a boat load of magazines and some other small parts. The turn around time with them is excellent and I meant excellent, as is communication. I had Dusk applied to the firearms and magazines and it is holding up very well, I am very pleased with the magazine coatings as the Sig P365 and XL mags rust out in no time IME, as do the safety leavers and mag realize buttons. I've also had several guns coated with NP3+ and a few mags. Honestly I couldn't tell you the functional difference between the two. I do dig the dark shade that the dusk comes in over the silver of NP3+. Dusk wears through silver over time and I like the worn look after thousands of rounds. I seriously can't say enough good things about their turnaround and CS. Robar was awesome when they were in business but turnaround was always slow, sad they closed down. Having said that and since Robar is done I don't know that I'd look to another coating company unless I was wanting just a straight nitride job. Just my .02, I have no affiliation with them but am super pleased with CCR.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by CCR Refinishing View Post
    CPII is a Electroless Nickel composite plating process containing Boron Nitride as a lubricant. NP3 was a Electroless Nickel containing Teflon as a lubricant

    We choose Boron Nitride as a lubricating agent as it is long lasting an
    does not degrade like Teflon at temps

    We have been refinishing firearms for 35 years
    Thanks for the clarification. Are you able or willing to share how CPII differs from WMD's NiB-X or FailZero's/UCT's EXO, given that those two have mixed reviews when it comes to their efficacy as BCG coatings?

  5. #25
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    Here are links to CCR: CCR Refinishing, Dusk
    I like links mixed in with the discussion so that I will find them when I am
    looking to get something refinished.

    https://www.ccrrefinishing.com/information.html

    https://www.ccrrefinishing.com/pictures.html
    "To achieve any significant technological breakthrough, much Derp must be endured." -Rich@CCC
    "Your shotgun is running a bit frenetic, you should add some lavender to your lubricant, that should calm it down." -Aray, Oils and Lotions SME


  6. #26
    I wonder what CCR Ni-kote really is. I looked and looked at finishes for a custom gun on aluminum receiver and never got a straight answer.

    Catalog says
    "Ni-kote is a Nickel based alternative finish to tank based Nickel plating. We at CCR have designed Ni-kote for use on Anodized Alloy frames ONLY to be as close of a match to our CPII plating process as possible without having to compromise the factory Anodization. Ni-kote is also a self lubricating finish that offers three forms of lubrication and durability without damage to the alloy frame."

    So is it a different approach to nickel plating or is it perhaps a coating with nickel filler instead of ceramic, Teflon, or boron nitride?
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  7. #27
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    I wonder if the Ni-kote is related or similar to the Cerakote C-110 "Micro Slick" finish.

  8. #28
    Hokey / Ancient JAD's Avatar
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    Finishes are selected to achieve goals. Judging by what people have said so far those are mostly aesthetic; but we could also finish some or all of the gun in a way that inhibits wear and/or corrosion.

    To limit wear the coating either has to be hard or smooth. It will not be both. hC is very hard, and very rough; I would expect it to gall if mated like to like, and to eat the other side of disparate matings. That matches my experience with chromed frames and blues slides — but the slides are a lot harder than the frames and it all seems to work well if kept wet. Contrary to the earlier poster I would say chrome is the best known firearms finish beside bluing.

    HC can be put on pretty thick which is key to inhibiting corrosion but will crack, defeating that purpose. It rejects about anything you put on top of it so I’ve never seen a good solve other than lube.

    Nickel (particularly electroless which is required for an even coating thickness since nickel is magnetic and will collect on the poles if electroplated) is much softer as plated, but it can be heat treated to >70 RC. That makes it microcrack like chrome and gets crazy abrasive, but it will take all kinds of stuff as a top coat to solve it. Boron must be great, I never worked with it much. Teflon is awesome and does not actually have issues at temperature to my knowledge — I’d like to see that substantiated. If the part will be used for electrical contact there is other stuff you can do that I probably still can’t talk about.

    I could go on but in the end the best firearms finish is a cured epoxy for all three considerations. If the part won’t tolerate it, like innards or bcgs, then I like soft EN but would look at boron if I was excited about it.
    Ignore Alien Orders

  9. #29
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    The major drawback of hard chrome which really drives choosing a known good applicator is the risk of hydrogen embrittlement. If you can tolerate or like the silver appearance and keep the pistol lubed, it is a very good finish choice. The 1911 that John Harrison built for me that has as its serial number my wife's name and birthday is finished with hard chrome.

  10. #30
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Default.mp3 View Post
    Electroless nickel boron nitride finishes seem to be offered by many vendors, including many that seem to do only bulk stuff. The same can be said about electroless nickel PTFE composites. For example, Nutmeg Chrome Corporation offers both: https://nutmegchrome.com/product/boron-nitride/ and https://nutmegchrome.com/product/slik-shot/
    I reached out through the web site and Nutmeg Chrome does not offer small-lot, individual services. They are industrial only.
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