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Thread: C.A.R. shooting

  1. #11
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    Jul 2019
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    Almost Heaven
    Members of our SWAT team attended a class somewhere that was taught by Paul Castle and immediately all involved got man crushes on him. I ended up bringing him to teach our whole team because of the clamor. From an administrative standpoint it was a PITA and his documentation was shady. Paul was a dynamic and likable speaker plus with his British accent everyone assumed he was ex-SAS or something. Later I attended a seminar where he was one of the instructors and I was significantly faster and more accurate shooting Weaver than he was using C.A.R. on a video shooting simulator.

    Paul himself admitted to me that he originally intended C.A.R. to be used for close up AND unusual shooting angles. The cross dominant stance is because C.A.R. does work for engaging targets that are directly behind you without turning yourself completely around. The handgun is presented over the shoulder and the head is only turned enough to use the nearest eye. Examples would be getting assaulted from behind while sitting fat, dumb and happy in a plane, bus or train car. It could also work if you’re sitting in a car and someone attacks from what most LEO’s think of as the blind spot.
    Somehow it became “The Hammer” for every nail to some shooters and I never unscrewed some of the SWAT guys before they retired even in the face of other shooters being quicker and more accurate from more conventional shooting stances.

    And this is the third old guy story I’ve typed here this week. I’ll be in my rocking chair if there are any questions…

  2. #12
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Maryland
    One of the most chilling things I ever witnessed was a Red Man training exercise when I was assigned to the academy. (While I was assigned to in-service, everyone wanted to participate or at least watch the recruit scenarios.) A recruit approached a disorderly Red Man and identified herself. Red Man turned with a knife in hand. The recruit slapped her right hip about three times before drawing her Blue Gun from a left hand holster. It only took a couple of seconds, but it seemed to last forever.

    I was frankly mystified and asked another instructor about this. I was informed that the firearms training unit was big on switching officers' holsters and primary gun hands if they were cross-eye dominant. (Given changes in supervision, I'm hopeful they've changed that policy.)

    Back to C.A.R.: I attended a two day class that Paul Castle put on for firearms instructors in the National Capital Region. He admittedly did it to sell his program to us. Paul was a good guy and entertaining. You could certainly use techniques from C.A.R. at times, but I wouldn't endorse it as a primary technique.

    Of course, it seems to work for several cast members of "Chicago P.D." so it's got that going for it.

  3. #13
    Site Supporter KevH's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
    Location
    Contra Costa County, CA
    I remember a friend attended a Paul Castle seminar in the mid-2000's and showed up all excited to preach the gospel of CAR.

    It's like a multi-level-marketing scheme. The victim is always super excited to show everyone else, but once the glitz and promise of success fades away they feel like a fool and want everyone to forget they ever had anything to do with it. It also has a way of rearing its ugly head every few years to claim more victims.
    Last edited by KevH; 03-06-2022 at 11:05 PM.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by jlw View Post
    It's like Jaws XVII.
    My first reaction to the thread title was a wave of nostalgia from when CAR meant a short handy Colt carbine with a carry handle, then I realized it was probably this, then I thought "it's like Jason or Freddy Kruger, you can't kill it."
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by jnc36rcpd View Post
    Of course, it seems to work for several cast members of "Chicago P.D." so it's got that going for it.
    I have read a couple articles about the technique and based on 'In the Line of Duty' videos I always had the impression it was a popular tactic in the NE.
    Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....

  6. #16
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
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    The Wasatch Front
    Recently, it's been touted as The Solution to ambushes on cops in vehicles.

    I read the article. And I'm recalling when Mr Castle and his material hit the community the first time around. I find it interesting that no entity of note has adopted even some of it.

  7. #17
    And that's a huge clue as to its dubious usefulness for sure.

  8. #18
    So I think I may have mentioned my Paul Castle story before, but if I haven’t: My friend and I were at the Moundsville Prison Riot, a combination trade show/prison riot training scenario for prison tactical teams, at the old Moundsville Prison in West Virginia. Paul Castle had an office at the prison, working there in some capacity.

    My friend and I were walking along in the trade show, and came upon Paul, doing a TV interview. We didn’t even know Paul. He suddenly handed my friend a blue gun for the camera, then kicked him and disarmed him, leaving my friend bleeding, LOL. It was pretty funny, and I’m going to bring it up to my friend tomorrow at work and laugh about it.

    Then I got to hang out with Ken Hackathon and pick his brain, so overall it was a great time.

  9. #19
    Site Supporter
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    Jun 2012
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    ABQ
    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    Recently, it's been touted as The Solution to ambushes on cops in vehicles.

    I read the article. And I'm recalling when Mr Castle and his material hit the community the first time around. I find it interesting that no entity of note has adopted even some of it.
    Sooo much this. Occasionally it is THE solution. Most of the time....Not so much.

    Most of us, in training, are trying to hedge our bets. Stats and whatnot...you cannot prepare for every single permutation of the attack. At some point you have to exercise competence in the face of the threat...

    When it works, it will be the technique of the future. When it dosen't work...

    pat

  10. #20
    Site Supporter Casey's Avatar
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    May 2012
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    South Florida
    CAR came up during a Randy Cain Street & Vehicle Tactics class I attended a couple years ago. After first providing a lengthy explanation as to why most of CAR is silly, Randy demonstrated how there might be a niche use case for a CAR-like compressed ready position when seated on the driver side of a vehicle and having to engage a target outside the driver side of the vehicle, with the windows rolled up. There was none of the cross-eye stuff taught. It was simply a matter of not being able to drive out of a situation, not having enough space to come out to full extension, and still wanting to get at least a gross sight picture. This was practiced on the square range seated in a chair, then in the cars. I can see the application in an ambush-type scenario as Erick mentioned.

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