Giant spiders moving north

[peterb]

They're huge, have eight blue-black and yellow striped legs, and could soon move into most of the Eastern Seaboard of the U.S.

A study published in the journal Physiological Entomology says that the palm-sized joro spider, which has been largely confined to warmer southeastern states for nearly a decade, could soon be expected to colonize regions with colder climates.

That's because researchers have discovered the large arachnids have a higher probability of surviving a brief freeze than other closely related species of the same genus.

A joro spider can grow to be about 3 inches long, including a large bulbous body with bright yellow stripes. Its underbelly has distinctive red markings, and it weaves large webs that look as if they're spun from golden silk.

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/05/10846...nid-is-spreadi



"People should try to learn to live with them," Andy Davis, a research scientist in the Odum School of Ecology and one of the authors behind the recent study, told UGA Today, a publication by the University of Georgia.

[LOKNLOD]

Hmm... where's that article about reversing climate change with nuclear winter? It might be time to try that.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This is why we need 30 round magazines. We had tarantulas walking up the side of the house and some monster golden spider weaving a web across the back yard entrance in TX. Told p-f before of my friend who used a 12 gauge on a tarantula walking into her house in the SW and wrecking her family's hard wood fancy floor. Scorpions marched across our kitchen floor and climbed the walls.

So we got monster spiders, giant snakes, macaques, wild pigs, etc. on the loose. Hank the Tank and beavers march to Alaska. Damn geese on the roof next door honking away! The coyotes howl and deer look into our bedrooom window at night. Gaea is striking back.

[awp_101]

"People should try to learn to live with them," Andy Davis, a research scientist in the Odum School of Ecology and one of the authors behind the recent study, told UGA Today, a publication by the University of Georgia.

If by “learn to live with them” they mean “kill them with fire”, I’m onboard.

[peterb]

They’re sporting the Ukrainian colors. ;-)

[SD]

This spider claimed our front window last year, it was very fast and aggressive. (my excuse for not washing these windows).

Attachment 85520

[RevolverRob]

I have arachnophobia. The irrational fear of spiders. Intellectually, I recognize their value in the ecosystem and that spiders and scorpions mean me no harm. But on a visceral level - fire is my preferred way of dealing with them.

All that said, I appreciate the study of their physiology to understand how they may spread here. But I'm not sure I "get it". I read the abstract for the paper and I'm working to download it through an institutional account to review. But the premise is a study of physiology between two invasive spiders. But there appears to be no accounting for a base level of information available: the information from their home range.

In other words, what is their native distribution with respect to habitat and climate variables. They measure physiological traits and infer a connection between those traits and freeze tolerance. But let's stop for a moment - do Joro spiders have a range in Japan where they commonly encounter freezing conditions? (Yes they do). Therefore, why would we assume from the outset that freeze tolerance was a limiting factor in their ability to distribute in a new environment?

This is one of the two common fallacies I see in these types of studies:

The first; assuming an invasive is somehow no longer bound by physiological limits it experienced in its native range. In other words assuming once a species moves in it can "reset" its biology, that is rarely, if ever, true.

The second; assuming an invasive is somehow ONLY bound by the limits it experienced in its native range. Which is also rarely true.

---

Again, don't get me wrong. I really like studies that try to understand the traits which serve to limit species distributions. I've written papers like that myself and I'm working on another right now. But I do think it's a lesson to learn that there is a baseline of data available, merely by evaluating a species natural distribution, that often gets overlooked. Simultaneously, that data can be over interpreted and a "science stopper" at an early stage.

I don't know enough about spider physiology, but I might have opted to compare Joro to another large, native, spider that has a similar range as the projected range of Joro would if they have a freeze tolerance. That to me would be a convincing link between the physiological traits and freeze tolerance.

All this academic babbling - I'm not trying to be mean to the authors of this study or denigrate what they did. Instead, I see they fell into a common academic trap with this work and I see how it could be improved. And unfortunately, by publicizing their study - they open themselves up to this scrutiny level without really trying. Media coverage is a double edged sword for academics and I hope the PI supervising this work (work was authored by a grad student and undergrad) sat them down and prepared them for the reality of harsh criticism due to media coverage. In my experience, I doubt that happened.

[entropy]

I have the same issue with snakes, poisonous or not. My high pitched kindergarten girly voice is still careening thru the universe over this discovery a few years back... 6 total living in the mower.

[awp_101]

They’re sporting the Ukrainian colors. ;-)

Not enough. In fact they could have Old Glory markings all over and it wouldn’t be enough.

I have the same issue with snakes, poisonous or not. My high pitched kindergarten girly voice is still careening thru the universe over this discovery a few years back... 6 total living in the mower.

Snakes don’t bother me but that’s an entirely reasonable response to unexpectedly finding 6 when your not looking…

[Totem Polar]

Where I am at with all this: