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Thread: New CO high hit factors

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    New CO high hit factors

    USPSA updated high hit factors today. I believe these are the changes.

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    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    USPSA updated high hit factors today. I believe these are the changes.

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    PCC got a nice bump also. Guess it’ll be that much more satisfying to classify up now!

  3. #3
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Thanks, good to know. Looks like about 55% of the CO classifiers stages got modified, second only to PCC.

    I went looking for the USPSA Stage Diagrams on the web site. If they are there, they are pretty hard to find. Anyone have a link as to where I can find the official USPSA stage diagrams for all the 85 (?) Classifier Stages?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    Thanks, good to know. Looks like about 55% of the CO classifiers stages got modified, second only to PCC.

    I went looking for the USPSA Stage Diagrams on the web site. If they are there, they are pretty hard to find. Anyone have a link as to where I can find the official USPSA stage diagrams for all the 85 (?) Classifier Stages?
    If you Google “USPSA classifiers”

    You get this.

    https://uspsa.org/classifiers

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    Thanks, good to know. Looks like about 55% of the CO classifiers stages got modified, second only to PCC.

    I went looking for the USPSA Stage Diagrams on the web site. If they are there, they are pretty hard to find. Anyone have a link as to where I can find the official USPSA stage diagrams for all the 85 (?) Classifier Stages?
    If you go to the USPSA app, there are a bunch of sections with stage diagrams, your classification, rules, and a classification calculator. As of yesterday they had not updated the classification calculator on the app but it did work on the main USPSA website.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  6. #6
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    If you go to the USPSA app, there are a bunch of sections with stage diagrams, your classification, rules, and a classification calculator. As of yesterday they had not updated the classification calculator on the app but it did work on the main USPSA website.
    Thanks, I just was (and am) a bit surprised there's no hotlink (I can see) that can take you from the main USPSA web site, to the list of classifier stages, you have to go VFR direct, as it were. It'd be nice if they added that. But anyway I did get the info as above, thanks. Also, confirmed that the web site calculator for HHF matches the release of HHF posted in the pdf above.

    Reason for question was last October when I went through all 84 USPSA classifier stages, 1 by 1 by hand, to create a spreadsheet to compute each specific stage time I'd need to beat for M, A, B, etc., I had missed stage 13-05 Tick-Tock. So I was wondering if maybe it was a retired classifier. So I wanted to check, and apparently I just missed including 13-05 in the 84 stages in my sheet (which is now updated correctly with the times for all 85 stages).

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    Reason for question was last October when I went through all 84 USPSA classifier stages, 1 by 1 by hand, to create a spreadsheet to compute each specific stage time I'd need to beat for M, A, B, etc., I had missed stage 13-05 Tick-Tock. So I was wondering if maybe it was a retired classifier. So I wanted to check, and apparently I just missed including 13-05 in the 84 stages in my sheet (which is now updated correctly with the times for all 85 stages).
    RJ, you might feel that I'm picking on you but I really am trying to help and really trying to highlight the parts of your engineering brain that creates more work and less helpful because of back-calculating fudge factors not accounted for.

    Please keep an open mind and read below to see my perspective. I deconstruct classifiers as well so I have some experience in this.

    1. When you calculate the "time" needed on a stage, that's assuming some proportion of alphas and charlies.

    2. The proportion of alphas and charlies required on different stages are very different for the same skill level shooter. If you have close wide open targets versus far partials, the time taken to make an alpha versus a charlie differs. You might opt for fast charlies on something like "eye of the tiger" where you really don't have time to waste guaranteeing alphas on head boxes. In addition, if you're talking about a classifier with steel or tuxedos, they're either alpha or miss so if you're calculating alpha to charlie ratio in a gross overgeneralized way, you have to take them out of the equation. You don't get to shoot more charlies on that stage on the open papers just because you had to shoot alpha on steel. That's not how it works.

    3. So instead of wasting time on "what you'd have to do for each level" across 80+ classifiers that has so many overgeneralizations to not be useful, you can use the classifiers and times to break down and tease out component parts of skill.

    What I mean by that is: there are many shared elements in classifiers. 6 reload 6 is a very common pattern. If you break down a few different specific classifiers, it's like those logic puzzles from elementary school. You can assume a split time on a 10 yard target is X and a split time on a 10 yard partial is Y and that scales to a 20 yard open similarly, so subtract those and figure out how much time you'd need for an unloaded table start, blah blah.

    Stoeger breaks down the component skills for GM and B level as well. That's really what to focus on. What's the draw speed reproducible 8/10 times to a 7 yard A zone. What's the recoil control splits at 10 yard alphas, etc.

    It's funny you mention Tick Tock because it has skill requirements that are kind of unique. The unloaded table start and table reload. The other skills are similar to El Strong and Weak Pres so can be deconstructed.

    So for example, when I was testing that specific skill I knew where my shooting skills were at so I knew the time suck was all in the load and reload and I could focus there. The real time thought process was done in this practice video.


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    @RJ so I pick a couple specific classifiers to work with because they represent different skill sets that I need to develop.

    I usually check skills against:
    El Pres for turn draw and reloads on medium targets.
    Eye of the Tiger for draw speed to difficult target and transitions to difficult targets (that still have to be done fast).
    Can You Count for max speed.

    As a practical example, Can You Count because the targets are so close and the HFs are so stringent you really are required to make all alphas and go fast. So that's a stage where if you applied the same alpha-charlie ratio as Eye of the Tiger, it would be way off.


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    My general criticism of certain engineering pitfalls is:

    Tendency to oversimplify complicated things.
    Tendency to complicate simple things.

    So in the case of classifiers, it's all just in a Stoeger chart.

    Want to be B level?
    You need something like 1.3 second draw to 7 yard A and 0.25 splits with 0.30 transitions, 1.5 second reloads. That scales to adding 0.2 ish if going out to 15 yards, which is the same marksmanship requirement as a 7 yard partial.

    That's the key. To find out what the component part requirements are (which helps you benchmark and practice them). In this case, they're already published in a book which was super helpful to me when starting out. I benchmarked his GM levels and worked towards those.

  10. #10
    What I have been doing to calculate classifier scores is calculate what the time would be with all A’s to get the baseline slowest time I need to get a x level score. But I know all alphas is likely not going to happen so I also calculate the time necessary for 50% alpha and 50% Charlie’s and also 70% alpha and 30% Charlie. This lets me see how much wiggle room I have on time.

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