Try to carry the best you can do. Means What? CDW4ME ... That's funny.

[farscott]

The value for me in this forum is how it questions what I think I know as the membership values results not opinions. Many times I have read something that did not jive with my views, but a range trip with a timer and scored targets proved my views were not correct. I learn from the discourse.

There has also been, for me, some diversions that ended up being valuable because of what I tried -- even if I failed or it did not work for me. Informed or not, the proof is in the shooting.

[03RN]

I enjoy talking hardware because I'm a guy but it's the least important aspect of guns, carry, etc.

[NWshooter]

Do you feel lucky dude?

[Cecil Burch]

Or it can be an opportunity to teach… and I’m hoping we can make the most of that.

I agree in general, but there is some nuance present.

Some of us have been having the same conversation for literally multiple decades. I choose to engage in those discsussions because learning does occur. When I started posting in the Compuserve/Prodigy/AOL days, I was met with massive pushback and insults - "going to the ground is always stupid" and the concurrent "it does not happen in the real world" (Sidenote - it always amused me that both those arguments were used agaisnt me and not one of the persons saying them ever noticed in their rush to establish how right they were that those two sayings are fairly mutually exclusive... but I digress). Flash forward to the present and it is pretty safe to say those of us presenting the idea of a mutlidisciplinary approach to fighting are no longer being met with the same pushback. Indeed, a ton of folks - including a lot of them who used to say this stuff wasn't a good idea or never appened are now teaahcing it. So learning did occur becasue we stayed in the convo.

HOWEVER, it can get tiring answering the same attacks and insults over and over and over again. Literally all the attacks I heard in 1997, so nothing new there. On top of that, for a good amount of those discussions and answers still exist in cyber space. On many forums including this one, most of the issues can be found with a 3 second search. So answering the same attack the same way I did in 1999, or 2001, or 2007, or 2014, or 2020, can get old, especially when maybe I choose to use what little free time I have in ways that bring more joy or benefit.

I have not run away from these situations, but I fully understand who do. When you have spend years and years trying to get folks to understand that not everyone can carry the gun that they want 24/7/365 because of massive outside contextaul issues, and then some of the people who used to argue moronic stuff like "you can carry full size guns easy all the time" start doing videos and even classes on how to operate in an NPE..... it is hard to care at times.

[Clusterfrack]

I agree in general, but there is some nuance present.

Some of us have been having the same conversation for literally multiple decades. I choose to engage in those discsussions because learning does occur. When I started posting in the Compuserve/Prodigy/AOL days, I was met with massive pushback and insults - "going to the ground is always stupid" and the concurrent "it does not happen in the real world" (Sidenote - it always amused me that both those arguments were used agaisnt me and not one of the persons saying them ever noticed in their rush to establish how right they were that those two sayings are fairly mutually exclusive... but I digress). Flash forward to the present and it is pretty safe to say those of us presenting the idea of a mutlidisciplinary approach to fighting are no longer being met with the same pushback. Indeed, a ton of folks - including a lot of them who used to say this stuff wasn't a good idea or never appened are now teaahcing it. So learning did occur becasue we stayed in the convo.

HOWEVER, it can get tiring answering the same attacks and insults over and over and over again. Literally all the attacks I heard in 1997, so nothing new there. On top of that, for a good amount of those discussions and answers still exist in cyber space. On many forums including this one, most of the issues can be found with a 3 second search. So answering the same attack the same way I did in 1999, or 2001, or 2007, or 2014, or 2020, can get old, especially when maybe I choose to use what little free time I have in ways that bring more joy or benefit.

I have not run away from these situations, but I fully understand who do. When you have spend years and years trying to get folks to understand that not everyone can carry the gun that they want 24/7/365 because of massive outside contextaul issues, and then some of the people who used to argue moronic stuff like "you can carry full size guns easy all the time" start doing videos and even classes on how to operate in an NPE..... it is hard to care at times.

Thanks for the excellent post, Cecil. I'm really glad you're here.

[Lex Luthier]

Post-p1$$-take thoughts:

I am far from an SME here, but elsewhere I kind of fit that niche*, and I no longer respond very deeply to repetitive questions via open social media.
It's demoralizing, and yeah, I could use that time and effort to make some income that will help my family and business, or at least advance my abilities.

I have friends in my field - acknowledged world class SMEs - who are followed from forum to forum by goofballs who like the sound of their own typing;
a couple of these folks are toothaches in real life, too.
Like @MapleSyrupActual said and @RevolverRob quotes, "The idiocy is too prevalent to defeat."
Sometimes you can get through to them, but mostly you can't.

So I primarily lurk on the tech forums, because I'm too busy seeking knowledge to want to toot my horn.

If you can't say anything nice, say something surreal.



*17 years working for and alongside some of the best luthiers and repair people that have yet picked up a chisel.

[CDW4ME]

This thread is like "One Weird Trick to Win Every Gunfight"

That's funny.

It was the internet equivalent of T-shirt’s sold at state line gas station souvenir shops

That's even funnier.

Here is another souvenir t-shirt (AKA my enigmatic thinking). And its not directed toward either person I quoted.

This ain't the shirt:
I'm retired (thank God) and can dress as I choose.
MY EDC is a Glock 17 which I shoot very well, its carried AIWB.
A 2nd gun or "back-up" to that could be a PM9 which is carried in weak hand front pocket; affords option of putting my hand on it without revealing I'm carrying.
99% of the time I'm wearing cargo shorts (FL) and a loose untucked shirt which easily conceals the Glock 17 - that I shoot very well.
The other 1% of the time I'm wearing gym shorts, either jogging or push mowing the yard and "only" have the PM9 in a Smartcarry.

Here comes the souvenir shirt:
Note how where I described my carry it was absent the following: "good area", threat assessment, anticipated threat, "mission".
That is because those things (concepts) don't factor into what handgun I'd prefer to defend myself with.
I live in a "good area" with low anticipated threat. Doesn't matter. If I had to defend myself I'd prefer the Glock 17 in hand over the PM9.
CDW4ME with low threat assessment and mundane "missions" like going to Publix you could just pocket carry the PM9, that is "good enough". Right.
But, what concealable handgun (not rifle or shotgun, has to easily conceal under loose untucked shirt) would I prefer to defend myself with? Glock 17

If somebody carries a handgun at all (LCP/snub) they are doing better than most who are unarmed. Good job. If you want my compliment there one is.
If one is content with "better than nothing" okay; but, entertain the idea of "best you can do" or what handgun would be preferred as a goal.

The crappy shirt was free.

[GearFondler]

Post-p1$$-take thoughts:

I am far from an SME here, but elsewhere I kind of fit that niche*, and I no longer respond very deeply to repetitive questions via open social media.
It's demoralizing, and yeah, I could use that time and effort to make some income that will help my family and business, or at least advance my abilities.

I have friends in my field - acknowledged world class SMEs - who are followed from forum to forum by goofballs who like the sound of their own typing;
a couple of these folks are toothaches in real life, too.
Like @MapleSyrupActual said and @RevolverRob quotes, "The idiocy is too prevalent to defeat."
Sometimes you can get through to them, but mostly you can't.

So I primarily lurk on the tech forums, because I'm too busy seeking knowledge to want to toot my horn.

If you can't say anything nice, say something surreal.



*17 years working for and alongside some of the best luthiers and repair people that have yet picked up a chisel.

I had to Google "luthier" just to find out what it was so it will be at least a week or two before I'm ready to find a guitar forum to dazzle with my insights.

[BehindBlueI's]

If somebody carries a handgun at all (LCP/snub) they are doing better than most who are unarmed. Good job. If you want my compliment there one is.
If one is content with "better than nothing" okay; but, entertain the idea of "best you can do" or what handgun would be preferred as a goal.

The crappy shirt was free.

What if they shoot that snub/LCP better than you shoot your Glock 17? Define "quite well" and in what conditions. Targets and timers, please. I see you ignored this the first time, but I'll repeat myself. Pick a drill and I bet JCN shoots it better with a .380 with no sights then you shoot your Glock 17.

What is "best" in your context? What objective measurements are you using. For a long time, the gun I shot best was a 1911. But I found during force on force training that I could not deactivate the grip and thumb safety 100% reliably while entangled. Should I carry a 1911? Or, are the marginal differences in accuracy and split times completely overwhelmed by the handicap in entangled fights? Nobody is triggered or fishing for your compliment, just trying to help you understand that you don't know what you don't know and that you aren't really accomplishing what you think you are with your bumper sticker advise.

Read this thread on a bit deeper dive into selecting a carry gun: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....y-gun-decision If you want to go much, much further there's some older threads on TDA vs striker fired, the value of a 'people management trigger' vs raw performance, etc.

To quote myself from that thread:

For a carry gun I require:

1) It's easy to NOT shoot when I don't want to shoot.
2) It's easy to shoot when I DO want to shoot.
3) It's dead-nuts reliable.
4) It can be carried during the activity I intend to carry it during (ie, jogging is not the same as on duty)
5) It is something I can reliably index on command.

Then questions of objective performance come in to play. I like "finding your level" as a drill since it gives you reasonable accuracy standards with short strings of fire (1, 2, 3, and 4 round strings).

[HeavyDuty]

I had to Google "luthier" just to find out what it was so it will be at least a week or two before I'm ready to find a guitar forum to dazzle with my insights.

“Luthier” - artisan skilled in the creation of wood shavings and tears.