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Thread: Blanket denials of Form 1 suppressers.

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by joshs View Post
    ... raw materials...
    There are going to be parallel issues this summer when the ATF puts new '80%' rules into effect (and states, e.g. WA, are doing similar things), Some of the proposed definitions of when something becomes a firearm are pretty far up stream, even as far as anything has been done that makes it not just a commodity item.

    So, is a raw forging a 'firearm'? Step 1 of the process has certainly been done. But what about these:


    https://www.80percentarms.com/produc...ower-receiver/

    4.5x1.5 might be a stock size, but when you cut it to 8 inches *for the purpose of making an AR lower*, is that step 1 as well? Is the only safe way to buy a stock size, say 5x1.5x12 and cut it down?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by whomever View Post
    There are going to be parallel issues this summer when the ATF puts new '80%' rules into effect (and states, e.g. WA, are doing similar things), Some of the proposed definitions of when something becomes a firearm are pretty far up stream, even as far as anything has been done that makes it not just a commodity item.

    So, is a raw forging a 'firearm'? Step 1 of the process has certainly been done. But what about these:


    https://www.80percentarms.com/produc...ower-receiver/

    4.5x1.5 might be a stock size, but when you cut it to 8 inches *for the purpose of making an AR lower*, is that step 1 as well? Is the only safe way to buy a stock size, say 5x1.5x12 and cut it down?
    No doubt. I've repeatedly pointed out that many of the bills targeting 80% receivers could extend all the way to aluminum that Beretta orders from Alcoa. Since Alcoa knows that material will be used in the creation of firearms, it would be covered by many of the bills we've looked at that attempt to move the existing (not so bright line) rule regarding when a product becomes a "firearm."

  3. #13
    This is one hell of a rabbit hole on Form 1s. The ATF isn't providing any guidance on what parts or materials are allowed for fabrication.

    Using the new logic we should all be filing Form 4s when we buy a new mount adapter or DT adapter, or even a threaded muzzle device that receives a suppressor.

  4. #14
    I got this in an email this morning from the AFT.

    I guess they realized they can't just reject every application on the assumption that the applicant was using a solvent trap.

    Dear eForm 1 applicant,
    The National Firearms Act (NFA) Division received your ATF eForm 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm. As a part of the application process, NFA Division must confirm that the making or possession of a firearm would not place the applicant in violation of law.[1]
    NFA Division requests that you provide certain additional information so that it may determine whether your eForm 1 application to make a silencer may lawfully be approved. Specifically, please submit to NFA Division the following:

    • Pictures of the parts that you will use to make the silencer (the pictures should be clear and allow the identification of the parts photographed),
    • A description of the processes you will use to assemble or fabricate the silencer,
    • The product, model, or kit name, if any, of each device and/or part that you will use to make the silencer, and
    • The source from which the parts were obtained, i.e., the name of the store, website, etc.

    The additional information may be submitted to NFA Division at the following email address: FORM1Silencerquestions@atf.gov. Please include the form Permit Control Number or eForm ID in the Subject bar for each correspondence with attachments. The additional information may also be sent by mail to:
    Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
    We could isolate Russia totally from the world and maybe they could apply for membership after 2000 years.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by 5pins View Post
    I got this in an email this morning from the AFT. :

    "...
    Pictures of the parts that you will use to make the silencer (the pictures should be clear and allow the identification of the parts photographed),
    A description of the processes you will use to assemble or fabricate the silencer,
    The product, model, or kit name, if any, of each device and/or part that you will use to make the silencer, and
    The source from which the parts were obtained, i.e., the name of the store, website, etc.
    ..."
    I wonder what they do if you truthfully answer 'I will machine it from bar stock that I have not yet purchased'.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5pins View Post
    I got this in an email this morning from the AFT.

    I guess they realized they can't just reject every application on the assumption that the applicant was using a solvent trap.
    I read "Please provide pictures so that we can decide you have already committed a felony or change our definition to make what you are trying to do also a felony."

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by whomever View Post
    I wonder what they do if you truthfully answer 'I will machine it from bar stock that I have not yet purchased'.
    Hey guys. Found this thread after receiving my "additional information required" email from batf. Letter received yesterday, I responded this morning. I'm a bored engineer with some cnc equipment in the home shop, so my can will be built from raw barstock. I responded with thumbnail photos of the material that I plan to order, hopefully distancing myself from the dragnet of kit builders. We'll see what happens - I'll update here when there's movement.

  8. #18
    Site Supporter ccmdfd's Avatar
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    A little more info, especially the quoted footnote.


  9. #19
    We could isolate Russia totally from the world and maybe they could apply for membership after 2000 years.

  10. #20
    This is such fucking bullshit.
    #RESIST

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