Larry Vickers "The Test"

[G19Fan]

@G19Fan

This is an example of what I’m talking about.

This is untimed, unsupported at 10 yards.

Attachment 112724

Which translates to this with a time limit and recoil management.



Note that I didn’t stop at 10 shots, just at 10 seconds.

Because it’s not about getting a lucky 10 shots, it’s about being able to do it again and again.

Attachment 112725

I could go faster, sure. But then I’d cut it closer to the “fail zone.”




IMO it’s about being consistent under pressure and having margin.

Because if you flinch 10% of the time… what’s to say that won’t be the first shot you pull or jerk and maybe that’s the shot you really needed to hit dead on…

This all makes sense. Thanks!

[JCN]

This all makes sense. Thanks!

It’s also why you don’t practice slow fire on a B8 black at 10 yards or untimed dot torture at 5 yards and expect that to be good at speed.

Ask more from yourself in consistency and achievement and you’ll learn more in the same amount of time as the crew that pats themselves on the back no matter the result and says “I’m happy with that.”

That’s literally the recipe for stagnation. They’ve already determined that they’re content with the results so no learning happens.

No matter how “good” I get, I’m always learning.

[JCN]

As a personal bias, I don't think 5 yard accuracy drills on circles are a good idea.

I said it.

Height over bore, especially with optics makes holdover a thing at those distances.

I would rather have a 4" target at 10 yards for training than a 2" target at 5 yards.

If something is 5 yards away, you're not going to be slow firing 0.40 splits or you'll get a knife to the skull or a fist to your face.

When you train for accuracy on a circle, I recommend minimum of 7 yards and preferably 10 or greater with an RDS lest height over bore will give you misleading feedback.

Sure, legacy training has people doing 2" circles at 5 yards. That might have been okay in iron days, but there's a distinct height over bore offset with RDS at those distances unless you have a crazy short zero.

When I have to do accuracy drills on close targets because of scaling, I pick slim rectangles so I don't have to account for height over bore.

[MDFA]

First day at the range with my .45 P320. 97/100 on the 10-10-10 Test. 185gr. Berry's HBRN Reloads. 8.07 Time at the Indoor Range. Sig's not selling a XTen Carry Module. I cut and beveled a Full Size XTen Module for the .45 Compact. The Wilson Extended Slide Release works on the .45 Module and Slide just fine by the way. I do wish Wilson Combat would make their Module for the 10/45 to take those magazines. I like the XTen Module, it's a great improvement over the stock module for me, but I do prefer the Wilson. I added a SIG Flat Trigger as well.

[Stuffbreaker]

Just got a challenge coin at my local indoor range with a three-string drill on the B8 target that included The Test.

All strings shot from low ready. Minimum score 270/300 under par times, or 90% of points for a coin. Shot 282/300 cold with my P320 Max.


String 1 at 5 yards: 10 rounds in less than 5.0 seconds (ran it in 4.6 seconds)

String 2 at 10 yards: "The Test" 10 rounds in less than 10.0 seconds (ran it in 6.7 seconds)

String 3 at 15 yards: 10 rounds in less than 15.0 seconds (ran it in 7.8 seconds).

[WobblyPossum]

Just got a challenge coin at my local indoor range with a three-string drill on the B8 target that included The Test.

All strings shot from low ready. Minimum score 270/300 under par times, or 90% of points for a coin. Shot 282/300 cold with my P320 Max.


String 1 at 5 yards: 10 rounds in less than 5.0 seconds (ran it in 4.6 seconds)

String 2 at 10 yards: "The Test" 10 rounds in less than 10.0 seconds (ran it in 6.7 seconds)

String 3 at 15 yards: 10 rounds in less than 15.0 seconds (ran it in 7.8 seconds).

Those three strings together are a variant of The Test popularized by Darryl Bolke and Wayne Dobbs. It’s called The Super Test.

[JohnO]

As a personal bias, I don't think 5 yard accuracy drills on circles are a good idea.

I said it.

Height over bore, especially with optics makes holdover a thing at those distances.

I would rather have a 4" target at 10 yards for training than a 2" target at 5 yards.

If something is 5 yards away, you're not going to be slow firing 0.40 splits or you'll get a knife to the skull or a fist to your face.

When you train for accuracy on a circle, I recommend minimum of 7 yards and preferably 10 or greater with an RDS lest height over bore will give you misleading feedback.

Sure, legacy training has people doing 2" circles at 5 yards. That might have been okay in iron days, but there's a distinct height over bore offset with RDS at those distances unless you have a crazy short zero.

When I have to do accuracy drills on close targets because of scaling, I pick slim rectangles so I don't have to account for height over bore.

Respectfully.

Don't you think it is appropriate to train for close targets. Especially if you are working with a height over bore offset. What would be wrong with having the skill to hit a 1" square at 3 yards regardless of your sighting system? I think the individual should be familiar with how their gun performs at all distances.

[G19Fan]

Respectfully.

Don't you think it is appropriate to train for close targets. Especially if you are working with a height over bore offset. What would be wrong with having the skill to hit a 1" square at 3 yards regardless of your sighting system? I think the individual should be familiar with how their gun performs at all distances.

Can't speak for JCN but I think it is because doing this at close range has limited use once you figure out holdover

[1Rangemaster]

I’m going to have to go with @JohnO on this one.
There is a height over bore issue at close range, whether you’re working with a pistol optic, rifle optic or irons on an AR platform. For me, I know it’s there, and I practice with the pistol optic from 2 to three yards and back on a representative target. My thinking is one doesn’t know what the problem will be, so to speak, so one trains with as many variables as possible.
YMMV, etc…

Edit to add: on the”Test”, @10 yards I am looking at the black of the B8 and trying to keep the dancing dot in the black as I work the trigger…

[breakingtime91]

I’m going to have to go with @JohnO on this one.
There is a height over bore issue at close range, whether you’re working with a pistol optic, rifle optic or irons on an AR platform. For me, I know it’s there, and I practice with the pistol optic from 2 to three yards and back on a representative target. My thinking is one doesn’t know what the problem will be, so to speak, so one trains with as many variables as possible.
YMMV, etc…

Edit to add: on the”Test”, @10 yards I am looking at the black of the B8 and trying to keep the dancing dot in the black as I work the trigger…

^Agreed

A lot of untrained AR users really fuck up easy shots because they don't practice to deal with their height over bore. Training is one thing, real life have to take that type of shot inside my house with kids running around or God forbid a dirt bag holding one of my kids. I better know that hold.