20 gauge slugs and buck

[Lost River]

I was in Billings MT last week during my travels and stopped in the Scheels store there. Long story short, on the shelf they had both buck and slugs for the 20 gauge, which I have not seen for a very long time.

I have had a little LT20 1100 3" magnum since I was a teen, and it is a very lightweight little thing. Many years back I picked up an extra 2 & 3/4" barrel for it and chopped it to 18 & a 1/2"s. I used to hunt small game with it, and my wife kept it loaded with some heavy loads for a house gun, since it did not have hardly any recoil. It is the type of gun you can literally extend and fire one handed (not very accurately, but still..)

Anyways, I found these 3/4 ounce slugs that show a velocity of 1350 FPS. That is roughly a 328 grain slug, at 1350.

I think that will probably wreck someone's day.

The buckshot was

15 pellet #2 buck.

I figured I may as well go shoot a few of these and put this old lightweight gun back in play. It has such light recoil, and is so short and maneuverable that any of the adult women in the house can handle it with ease, and would not make a bad traveling gun as well.




I know some people are down on using the 20s (mostly because people use the wrong ammo) but a 3/4 ounce slug at 1350 has the similar ballistics to "Ruger Only" loads for .44 Mags and .45 Colts.

I would not feel poorly armed having the little 20 gauge in my hand loaded with 5 slugs.

Not a bad "Old Man" gun

[GJM]

We have a Benelli M2 in 20 set up for slugs in AK. The Brenneke Classic Magnum slugs have better sectional density than the 12 gauge slugs, and it feel like a gas .308 recoil wise.

[Lost River]

We have a Benelli M2 in 20 set up for slugs in AK. The Brenneke Classic Magnum slugs have better sectional density than the 12 gauge slugs, and it feel like a gas .308 recoil wise.

That is very interesting. I had no idea about the SD, as well as the fact that Benelli had an M2 in 20 gauge. I bet that is one super fast setup.

[Mitch]

I live in a shotgun only state for deer and the gun most serious gun hunters use is a Savage 220. I’d have one myself if the ammo situation were better right now. But supposedly they are picky about which slugs they like. I’m lucky to even find any, so I just use my muzzleloader.

[TCinVA]

There's nothing inherently wrong with the 20 gauge. The problem is the ammunition. It's difficult to find buckshot that patterns well in 20 gauge.

What often happens is people buy a 20 gauge because "less recoil" and then shove 3" magnums full of small, poorly penetrating, badly patterning buckshot and think they've achieved something.

Recoil is about physics. If someone takes the time to actually look at the little numbers on the boxes of shells, they'll discover velocity and payload weight and might be able to do enough math to figure out that an ounce of lead moving 1,300-1,600 FPS is going to produce an equal and opposite reaction regardless of how big the tube it's flying out of happens to be.

The end result is they often end up with a gun that recoils more than a 12 gauge using normal or low recoil ammunition, with crappier patterns to boot.

I remember one lady who came to an offering of Home Defense Shotgun in May of 2020 who had a Franchi semi-auto 20 gauge someone had recommended to her. The gun was nice and light, but it required stout loads to cycle reliably. Every time she got done with a drill and brought the gun down she looked shell shocked. Eyes wide, breathing heavy...she was fighting with that gun the whole time she shot it. I shot the gun and it had more felt recoil than even I was expecting. I could see why she was struggling. Her choice was to aggressively mitigate recoil or get smacked around by the gun. It got worse when we patterned because she had 3" magnum 20 gauge buckshot.

She was a trooper, but in every respect her life was made more difficult by the choice of a 20 gauge that I'm sure felt great when handling it dry. It kind of reminds me of watching gun counter advice for women's carry. "Here's something small and light in a caliber that's normally used for full-sized duty guns! It's powerful and easy to carry! Win win!" then they shoot the thing once and never want to do it again because it's such a deeply unpleasant experience. It's much more difficult to get someone proficient with a handgun when every press of the trigger feels like they're hitting a concrete wall with an aluminum bat.

If a 20 gauge that is truly lighter and smaller than a 12 gauge gun gets paired carefully with slugs and buckshot that don't suck, the end result can be a very handy gun that is every bit as effective for our intended purposes as a 12 gauge. It's just that whole "slugs and buckshot that don't suck" part that's tough to come by. (Moreso buckshot than slugs) Ideally I'd like to see some FFC buckshot for 20 gauge guns. Federal actually makes Flight Control equipped turkey loads in 20 gauge so it's not like they don't have a 20 gauge FC wad.

FFC exists in the first place because of LE demand for shotgun ammo, and that's all in 12 gauge. The number of end users who have any real intelligence in the selection of defensive shotgun ammunition is so incredibly tiny that I doubt it will ever be profitable for anyone to offer a FC 20 gauge buckshot load. There is more stupid per capita about defensive shotguns than any other weapon available. Even with forums like this and people besides Tom Givens and Rob Haught out there talking sense about shotguns, it's still like throwing a bucket at a forest fire.

I've heard rumors that maybe somebody out there is looking at doing barrel work on 20 gauges to offer better patterning...but we'll see.

[peterb]

What often happens is people buy a 20 gauge because "less recoil" and then shove 3" magnums full of small, poorly penetrating, badly patterning buckshot and think they've achieved something.

Recoil is about physics. If someone takes the time to actually look at the little numbers on the boxes of shells, they'll discover velocity and payload weight and might be able to do enough math to figure out that an ounce of lead moving 1,300-1,600 FPS is going to produce an equal and opposite reaction regardless of how big the tube it's flying out of happens to be.

The end result is they often end up with a gun that recoils more than a 12 gauge using normal or low recoil ammunition, with crappier patterns to boot.

Yup. Years ago I made the mistake of trying 3” buck in a youth pump 20 gauge. It was…impressive. An express trip to the No Fun Zone.

[GJM]

As we have discussed previously, for defensive uses aside from a dedicated Brenneke launcher, the 1301 has pretty much wrecked the argument for 20 gauge shotguns.

[StraitR]

I concur with @GJM.

I've shot many rounds of skeet with a Benelli M2 Field in 20ga. Every 12ga I've ever shot with similar dram (a'la Wally World Party pack) has felt much softer. The only upside I've found in 20ga is lighter carrying weight, which as discussed here, does not translate to "lower felt recoil".

I love the 20ga for anything that has to do with carrying more than shooting, and I would not feel under-gunned at all if I had a handy model that patterned well with a quality buckshot. Finding 20ga ammo has always been the real chore.

[HCM]

I was in Billings MT last week during my travels and stopped in the Scheels store there. Long story short, on the shelf they had both buck and slugs for the 20 gauge, which I have not seen for a very long time.

I have had a little LT20 1100 3" magnum since I was a teen, and it is a very lightweight little thing. Many years back I picked up an extra 2 & 3/4" barrel for it and chopped it to 18 & a 1/2"s. I used to hunt small game with it, and my wife kept it loaded with some heavy loads for a house gun, since it did not have hardly any recoil. It is the type of gun you can literally extend and fire one handed (not very accurately, but still..)

Anyways, I found these 3/4 ounce slugs that show a velocity of 1350 FPS. That is roughly a 328 grain slug, at 1350.

I think that will probably wreck someone's day.

The buckshot was

15 pellet #2 buck.

I figured I may as well go shoot a few of these and put this old lightweight gun back in play. It has such light recoil, and is so short and maneuverable that any of the adult women in the house can handle it with ease, and would not make a bad traveling gun as well.




I know some people are down on using the 20s (mostly because people use the wrong ammo) but a 3/4 ounce slug at 1350 has the similar ballistics to "Ruger Only" loads for .44 Mags and .45 Colts.

I would not feel poorly armed having the little 20 gauge in my hand loaded with 5 slugs.

Not a bad "Old Man" gun

Not sure what you mean by the wrong loads. The terminal ballistics of 20 Gauge buck and slug work just fine.

20 gauge defense ammo has limited choices, cost more and is harder to find. In terms of recoil all other things being equal, The various reduced recoil 12 gauge loads will kick less and be just as effective unless you need to shoot through something like a car door.

Running a gas gun helps but I think gun fit is a bigger factor in perceived recoil.

My dad was a big bird Hunter and Clay shooter, he started me on a 20 gauge but, Hindsight being 2020 I found gun fit / stock length made a much bigger difference than the difference between 20 gauge recoil and 12 gauge recoil.

Have a kid shoot a 12 gauge with a youth stock and a 20 gauge with a full length 14 inch stock and they will likely pick the one that fits better.

[Lost River]

Lots of folks use whatever is available at the mom and pop sportsman's store and that usually is not stocking optimal stuff for 20 gauge heavy loads, whereas 12 gauge loads such as various flavors of buckshot are fairly common. That is one of the reasons for the thread. I actually found some decent 20 gauge ammo, which I have not seen in a number of years.

I honestly don't remember the last time I walked into a store and saw 20 gauge slugs on the shelf. Now I am thinking I should have purchased a few more boxes. Not that I will use them very often though, in reality. But it is nice to have a couple hundred in reserve.

I do understand what you are saying about shotgun fit. I grew up in the era before the transition to steel shot, and hunted a good bit with a 20 gauge single shot. It never was a handicap. In fact I was fairly good at sneaking along the river and hammering geese with it:



That old 20 gauge lite mag with 3" #4s accounted for a good number as well: