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Thread: Pistol zeroing after sight installation

  1. #1
    Member Chomps's Avatar
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    Pistol zeroing after sight installation

    I’m new to all this and Im considering getting a set of Speed Sights for my SA Hellcat. Just not crazy about that ‘U’ notch sight.

    My question is since I don’t have the tools for removing & installing sights, I will be taking it to a gunsmith. After installing, how does one adjust or zero the sights without those tools to shift them? Does the gunsmith do this after paying him to install? Or Is it up to me to figure a way to adjust or drift the sights fractions of mm’s afterwards?

    It doesn't seem as tho these dovetail type sights are easily (read accurately) adjusted in tiny increments by hammering on them. That would also seem to be awkward as hell to do on the fly @ the range!! Neither do they seem to lend themself to a quick, easy ‘Snap’ into place install.

    My Walther has adjustable sights and they were,.. ARE shifted pretty significantly off center in the slides dovetail when it was purchased. I had to adjust the elevation & windage pretty far Up and to the R to zero that pistol when new. The speed sights do not allow for those type of easy, incremental adjustments, so Im confused as to how I establish a proper Zero once I get them installed.

    Sorry if this is pretty basic, or seems like an obvious question, but as I mentioned, Im fairly new to CC and I know SQUAT about the mechanics involved. (…beyond a basic strip down for cleaning.)

  2. #2
    Site Supporter CCT125US's Avatar
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    If you don't have the tools or ability to self adjust, I suggest the following.

    Place a target at 7, 10, or 25 yards. Whatever distance you can shoot a group. Not a pattern, but a group, from there a competent gunsmith can make adjustments.

    This also helps with the math:

    https://dawsonprecision.com/sight-calculator/

    ETA: Choose a target with a small point of aim, 1" or 2" dot, use the same sight technique each time, be it level sight cutting desired POI, drive the dot, etc, and relay that to the gunsmith.
    Last edited by CCT125US; 02-19-2022 at 10:00 AM.
    Taking a break from social media.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Chomps View Post
    My question is since I don’t have the tools for removing & installing sights, I will be taking it to a gunsmith. After installing, how does one adjust or zero the sights without those tools to shift them? Does the gunsmith do this after paying him to install? Or Is it up to me to figure a way to adjust or drift the sights fractions of mm’s afterwards?
    If you do not even have a vice it will be tricky. If you have a vice then reality involves tapping on them with some kind of punch that will not mark them up, typically brass. Sight pushers are cool, but many folks, including professionals, do not use them.
    Here is an example of one prominent manufacturer doing an install:



    Quote Originally Posted by Chomps View Post
    Sorry if this is pretty basic, or seems like an obvious question, but as I mentioned, Im fairly new to CC and I know SQUAT about the mechanics involved. (…beyond a basic strip down for cleaning.)
    Another thing that can save a done of ammo that has a quick ROI is a laser bore sighter, here is one example.

    I think they are so handy I even bought one that screws into the end of an arrow.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter JohnO's Avatar
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    I have found over the years and through many guns, my own and others that proper installation of sights is key. When I see a pistol with the rear sight drifted significantly off center very often the front sight is askew. I have also seen sights poorly installed from the factory. I remember purchasing one of my Gen5 G17s with Ameriglow Agent sights. The gun from the case I was looking at had it's rear sight way off center. I asked the sales guy if he had another which he did. He cracked open the box and the rear sight was also askew. I asked if the shop had a sight pusher and they centered it for me. I could have done it myself but figured let them do it. I tweaked it a little later.

    I like to lay a straight edge (a machinist's 6" ruler) along the flat side of front sights. I then look for the ruler to be parallel with the length of the slide. I also check for the front sight to be centered on the slide. Once I'm satisfied with the proper position of the front sight the rear can be addressed if required.

    Drifting a rear sight can be done at the range without a sight pusher. I've done it, slide removed laying on a bench on it's side the direction you want the sight to move facing down. Tap with required force using either a brass rod or a piece of straight grain oak and a hammer.

  5. #5
    I purchased one of these based of a PF thread a while back.

    https://www.wyomingsightdrifter.com/...-sight-drifter

    It’s awesome.

  6. #6
    Member Chomps's Avatar
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    Ok,.. so I wasn’t entirely sure about the whole process, but if Im understanding everyone now? It’s entirely up to me and I am going to be the one to spend the range time and ammunition fiddling with the pistol to zero it after installation of aftermarket sights? Fine tuning zero is not a part of any paid, professional installation process for sights! 👍🏻

    And,.. if I follow some of what I’ve read researching this,.. In order to adjust poa/poi elevation with dovetail type metal or plastic sights,.. I will have to dink around raising or lowering the front sight? And those adjustments are opposite of rear sight adjustments for how/where to move the round? (i.e. Raise the FS to lower poi, Lower the FS to lift poi!)

    Thanks for the replies.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by omega9 View Post
    I purchased one of these based of a PF thread a while back.

    https://www.wyomingsightdrifter.com/...-sight-drifter

    It’s awesome.
    Are the brass tips on the base model replaceable, if a fellow with a machine shop wanted to make special ones?

  8. #8
    Member ubervic's Avatar
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    A competent gunsmith will install the front sight so that it is centered & aligned relative to the slide. Likewise, rear notch sight is installed so that it is centered, either using a sight pusher or with proper taps at left and/or right of the sight until it is centered in the sight dovetail/channel. Centering of rear sight is verified by eye, for a close-enough fit, or by using calipers, for a very accurate fit. Those are the fundamental tasks of proper sight alignment.

    If, after verifying that the sights are properly installed and centered, one finds that shots are not landing where they should, one typically has an issue with marksmanship or hold (i.e., applying a 6 o'clock hold when sights are regulated to a drive-the-dot hold).

  9. #9
    Gucci gear, Walmart skill Darth_Uno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chomps View Post
    Ok,.. so I wasn’t entirely sure about the whole process, but if Im understanding everyone now? It’s entirely up to me and I am going to be the one to spend the range time and ammunition fiddling with the pistol to zero it after installation of aftermarket sights? Fine tuning zero is not a part of any paid, professional installation process for sights! 👍🏻

    And,.. if I follow some of what I’ve read researching this,.. In order to adjust poa/poi elevation with dovetail type metal or plastic sights,.. I will have to dink around raising or lowering the front sight? And those adjustments are opposite of rear sight adjustments for how/where to move the round? (i.e. Raise the FS to lower poi, Lower the FS to lift poi!)

    Thanks for the replies.
    Correct on all points. If you just pay for installation of fixed sights, a good installer will make sure the front sight isn't canted or clocked, and the rear sight is simply centered left to right. Where the bullets actually hit can vary quite a bit based on ammo. I can take one of my 19's and 115gr ball, 150gr Syntech, and 124gr Gold Dots will all have a different POI. Sometimes even L to R, believe it or not.

    Some may offer zeroing services with a specified ammo. Which is really only drifting the rear sight one way or the other. With a fixed front and rear, you can't really do much about raising or lowering POI.

    And yes, to raise the POI you'd want a shorter front sight, and vice versa. I'm not aware of any adjustable front sight where you can actually raise and lower it, only adjustable rears. I believe it's Dawson or 10-8 that offers an overly tall plastic front sight that you can keep filing down to get the POI where you want it, then measure with calipers and order the correct height metal sight.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth_Uno View Post
    I believe it's Dawson or 10-8 that offers an overly tall plastic front sight that you can keep filing down to get the POI where you want it, then measure with calipers and order the correct height metal sight.
    Dunno about the file down option, but Dawson will provide a single replacement front sight as part of your purchase if their recommended size does not hit point of impact.

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