Please help me pick a new "duty" shotgun and set it up

[Rex G]

The Benelli safety button is in the same place as the 870 safety button. That is one less thing, which is a BIG thing, to have to re-hard-wire, which has kept me within the Benelli system, after retirement freed me from having to follow PD rules. (PD specified the 870, or the Benelli M1/M2. I started with an S&W 3000, an excellent 870 clone, which was approved, at the time, then progressed through the Benelli M1 Super 90, 870, and Benelli M2, as duty shotguns.)

My aging eyes LOVE the bold, open, barrel-mounted, rifle-type sights on the version of the Benelli Tactical M2 that has them. (My younger eyes loved them, too.) I do not think that these sights have been available on the 21” barrels. My 21” barrel will be equipped with an Aimpoint S-1, if/when I ever get around to vetting the combo.

I have nothing against the Beretta 1301, and may well buy one, for my wife to use. The shorter OAL, for a given barrel length, and the low recoil, would be desirable. She is familiar with her 870, “Baby,” but never really indoctrinated herself in using the safety button, so the new position of the safety button should not require so much re-hard-wiring.

[Lon]

I’m thinking about adding the XS sights for ribbed shotgun to my VR shotgun. Whichever you go with, that may be a good option for you.

https://www.opticsplanet.com/xs-sigh...gun-sight.html

[Willard]

Please don't take this as anything other than an attempt to be helpful. What is the 870P not doing for you? You know the gun, it is reliable, durable, not ammo sensitive, and probably intuitive to you not only in terms of operation, but maintenance. If I could pull back all the money I wasted on unnecessary hardware solutions, I'd be a rich man and retired. Just a counter to the constant enabling on this forum

[OlongJohnson]

Are RDS sights on shotguns prohibited by your agency ?

If not, why not a 1301 tactical with an Aimpoint H2 ?

The CROM with the rob haught mod is like using rifle sights, and they are only BUIS so you will likely never need them.

I’m a huge fan of 14” SBS and the 1301 Tac is as close to that size / handiness as you can get without a tax stamp.

I went over to KE Arms to get a link to their Aimpoint mount for the 1301 Comp and found it is no longer listed on the site. Too bad.

[KevH]

Please don't take this as anything other than an attempt to be helpful. What is the 870P not doing for you? You know the gun, it is reliable, durable, not ammo sensitive, and probably intuitive to you not only in terms of operation, but maintenance. If I could pull back all the money I wasted on unnecessary hardware solutions, I'd be a rich man and retired. Just a counter to the constant enabling on this forum

When I started, the Remington 870 was the universal "car gun" in law enforcement. I've watched that flip to now an AR is the universal long gun and the shotgun is sort of misunderstood and viewed as part of a bygone era in LE.

The 870 has always been a difficult gun for small statured officers to master and that hasn't changed. Short stroking is a real thing for folks that only shoot the gun a few rounds a year during mandatory training. I've also watched it happen in real life during a critical incident. Yes, more training can mitigate it, but I'm also a realist. If I can eliminate it, than why not?

I don't want to see my department lose the shotgun as an option because I stubbornly don't want to change, which means I need to look at other options besides just the 870. How do I do that if I don't have any practical experience with the other options myself?

Every few years someone on command staff asks me, "Why do we still have shotguns?" or "What do you want to upgrade our shotguns to?" With several good autoloader options out there I want to be able to give an educated and relevant answer to those questions. I had a captain ask me a couple years ago (February 2020), "Why don't we just get rid of all the 870's and issue Benellis?" Before I had a chance to give him an answer Covid happened and it hasn't come up again. I'm sure it will in the future and I want to have an answer.

Remington itself has been in a rocky situation for the past decade. The quality of 870's went down dramatically when they were owned by Cerberus Group. Then Remington went bankrupt and the new RemArms does not have an LE side yet and is being managed by folks that made paintball guns. The gun was manufactured for the last 60 years and there are lots of parts floating out there, but that still isn't ideal. I "upgraded" forty department 870's a few years back by having Wilson do their "Remington Steal" package and then individually upgrading them with new Surefire lights, Magpul stocks, VTac slings and Mesa side-saddles. A few of those guns have already begun getting pretty worn. I can no longer call Remington or look in a Brownells catalog to get a bunch of replacement parts.

If I were still only a patrol cop I could use an 870 for the rest of my career and do just fine, saving myself the money and the hassle, but part of my job is to stay abreast of changes in the industry and provide educated responses to the aforementioned questions. I've found that one of the best ways of doing that is to actually own/use the items versus relying on the study of others, factory demos I have for a few weeks, and just looking at what other people buy or recommend.

So, I'll sell some stuff I don't use, stuff I tried that I was "meh" about or didn't work for me, and use that money to buy something I can learn from. Right now I just want to decide what that is!

[Willard]

When I started, the Remington 870 was the universal "car gun" in law enforcement. I've watched that flip to now an AR is the universal long gun and the shotgun is sort of misunderstood and viewed as part of a bygone era in LE.

The 870 has always been a difficult gun for small statured officers to master and that hasn't changed. Short stroking is a real thing for folks that only shoot the gun a few rounds a year during mandatory training. I've also watched it happen in real life during a critical incident. Yes, more training can mitigate it, but I'm also a realist. If I can eliminate it, than why not?

I don't want to see my department lose the shotgun as an option because I stubbornly don't want to change, which means I need to look at other options besides just the 870. How do I do that if I don't have any practical experience with the other options myself?

Every few years someone on command staff asks me, "Why do we still have shotguns?" or "What do you want to upgrade our shotguns to?" With several good autoloader options out there I want to be able to give an educated and relevant answer to those questions. I had a captain ask me a couple years ago (February 2020), "Why don't we just get rid of all the 870's and issue Benellis?" Before I had a chance to give him an answer Covid happened and it hasn't come up again. I'm sure it will in the future and I want to have an answer.

Remington itself has been in a rocky situation for the past decade. The quality of 870's went down dramatically when they were owned by Cerberus Group. Then Remington went bankrupt and the new RemArms does not have an LE side yet and is being managed by folks that made paintball guns. The gun was manufactured for the last 60 years and there are lots of parts floating out there, but that still isn't ideal. I "upgraded" forty department 870's a few years back by having Wilson do their "Remington Steal" package and then individually upgrading them with new Surefire lights, Magpul stocks, VTac slings and Mesa side-saddles. A few of those guns have already begun getting pretty worn. I can no longer call Remington or look in a Brownells catalog to get a bunch of replacement parts.

If I were still only a patrol cop I could use an 870 for the rest of my career and do just fine, saving myself the money and the hassle, but part of my job is to stay abreast of changes in the industry and provide educated responses to the aforementioned questions. I've found that one of the best ways of doing that is to actually own/use the items versus relying on the study of others, factory demos I have for a few weeks, and just looking at what other people buy or recommend.

So, I'll sell some stuff I don't use, stuff I tried that I was "meh" about or didn't work for me, and use that money to buy something I can learn from. Right now I just want to decide what that is!

Sorry...I must have read your initial post too quickly and thought this was an individual officer choice. Got it from supervisory perspective with availability, the new recruits, etc.

[KevH]

Sorry...I must have read your initial post too quickly and thought this was an individual officer choice. Got it from supervisory perspective with availability, the new recruits, etc.

No worries! I didn't put a ton of info in my original post. Right now it's me wanting to play with an autoloader and probably carry it at work. That way I can actually give an educated opinion on running an autoloader.

Since it's my own money that I'm spending I just want help picking one!

[psalms144.1]

I used to own a M2 Tactical with comfort tech stock. Mine was 18" RS non-PG. I found it to be very comfortable with Flite Control buck and slugs, and was fully reliable with both of those. With any "cheap" lower recoil loads, not so much on reliability. Ran fine with full house buck shot and slugs, but was a pretty hard kicking little critter. Not pump gun hard, but not too much better. More importantly for me, the stock was overly long, and, because it's a Benelli, a replacement costs about as much as a new 870.

I think the 1301 is a lot more "tinker" friendly, if you think you're going to want to change the stock, etc.

Having said all that, I haven't had the chance to shoot the 1301, so I don't have a real basis from which to provide input on that one.

[L-2]

Who's using what shotgun-wise in the SF Bay Area lately (or any other dept./agency for that matter), whether semi or pump? Are shotguns even fielded or required to be by the patrol units? I seem to recall hearing San Francisco PD using the older Beretta 1201FP at one time. San Jose PD 14" 870s, with many other agencies also using the 870 with longer barrel lengths.

I understand, coming from California, a shotgun with a barrel-length less than 18" would generally need to be department-owned, and couldn't be owned by an individual.

I retired in 2017 where we used the Mossberg 590A1 14" and they'd still be using them, with at least one 14" Benelli M1 or M2 if anyone on SWAT wanted to use it.

I suspect many departments won't be buying any new shotguns until many of the 870s are actually broken and the departments find there are no longer any parts, as was mentioned. Then there are always the budget problems and I can only guess there wouldn't be much available grant-money in this political climate.

[Borderland]

Pumps are reliable if you train with them. 870 is just as reliable as any other shotgun, possibly more so. If I were buying a home defense shotgun it would be an 870. Probably because I've owned one for 50 years.

I'm not sure what LE expects from a shotgun. I thought they were replaced a long time ago with carbines for lots of reasons. The legend lives on I guess.

Kyle Rittenhouse didn't use a shotgun and he probably has more street fighting experience than most LE will have in a lifetime.