Good data point Cory, thanks for sharing!Originally Posted by Cory
Good data point Cory, thanks for sharing!
Food Court Apprentice
Semper Paratus certified AR15 armorer
My vote is a Benelli M1, M3 or M4. Been a Benelli fan ever since they were featured and imported by HK. I’ve had several and they’re all noteworthy. Simple inertia driven system on all. Simply figure out your stock preference, add a limb saver recoil pad and kit it accordingly. If applicable, I vote SBS. For LEO I’ve had standard configuration rifles and shotguns. Now that I have a short barreled machine gun and SBS shotguns, I would absolutely hate going back to a standard configuration. My M1 and M4 were in this category and they’re undeniably handier then their siblings. The M3 and M4 are unique in that the inertia recoil system has the assistance of pistons on the M4 and the M3 can be cycled manually. Both tertiary systems offer benefits. A custom SBS, M3, similar to the European model would be a yeti…. Unfortunately I only have my M4 left. Currently my favorite.
Last edited by sabre675; 09-03-2022 at 09:19 PM.
The Benelli M4 is not an inertia system.
My vote is a Benelli M1, M3 or M4. Been a Benelli fan ever since they were featured and imported by HK. I’ve had several and they’re all noteworthy. Simple inertia driven system on all. Simply figure out your stock preference, add a limb saver recoil pad and kit it accordingly. If applicable, I vote SBS. For LEO I’ve had standard configuration rifles and shotguns. Now that I have a short barreled machine gun and SBS shotguns, I would absolutely hate going back to a standard configuration. My M1 and M4 were in this category and they’re undeniably handier then their siblings. The M3 and M4 are unique in that the inertia recoil system has the assistance of pistons on the M4 and the M3 can be cycled manually. Both tertiary systems offer benefits. A custom SBS, M3, similar to the European model would be a yeti…. Unfortunately I only have my M4 left. Currently my favorite.
It’s not a gas operated shotgun either. It is a piston assisted system. Repeatedly is referred to, add nausium, as a gas operated system. It is piston assisted, gas regulated, operated system, to be precise. That’s the whole purpose of the tertiary system. Adds reliability, and additional benefit, to an already simple, reliable system. Weak loads have the added benefit of lagging gas bleed off. Powerful loads benefit from the same regulation.
Last edited by sabre675; 09-06-2022 at 09:27 AM.
The HK416 is not an inertia system, and neither is this one, although the round-about argument can be made that since the pistons are not in contact with the carrier for 100% of its travel in either system, and they simply "impart inertia" upon it, that it is an "inertia system", although one could then say the Stoner system is also "inertia". When people say "Inertia system" with reference to Benelli products, and others at large, what they are referring to is one or more component of the system "remaining in place" during recoil, while the rest of the whole "moves with the recoil", and thus compresses a spring mechanism which launches the operating parts through their sequence. The Benelli M4 has nothing like this.
I’ll respond, playing devils advocate and the Caveat that I may very well be wrong from an engineering standpoint, for the sake of spreading misinformation and leave it at that. However I feel confident in my assessment. Early on when the M4 was released, limited marketing to the LEO side, marketed the shotgun, essentially as an inertia driven system, with the short stroke pistons being a tertiary system, to assist with light and heavy loads, mitigating potential issues with the Benelli ID system. Meaning the primary method of operation was gas regulated/assisted recoil. In my mind and perception of initial release of the M4, this WAS, the selling point for added efficacy. Again, maybe I’m wrong, but if that isn’t the case, I see no reason as to why the M4 is in any way more efficacious than it’s peers. In fact, due to weight, possibly a detriment. Either way, thus far, mine is 100%. But then again, so we’re the 1187’s that I’ve owned and all previous purely ID systems and iterations from Benelli.
The reason I’m confident the M4 was marketed this way, is because when I broke down a co-workers newly acquired M4 back then and realized there isn’t an inertia spring in the bolt, it threw me off. However, the inertia spring, without over simplifying things, is the regulator in a purely recoil driven platform and why issues may be present with different loads and bolt velocities. Outside of omitting the inertia spring, the bolt is essentially unchanged.
Meanwhile the 416 is quite different in the envelope and method of operation, whether forward or aft, is still essentially still primarily a gas operated, while mitigating mostly non-issues in a properly designed DI rifle.
https://youtu.be/a6GWfg193vQ
“Inertia gas assisted shotgun”
@49 seconds @8:50 @1224
Last edited by sabre675; 09-06-2022 at 05:07 PM.
Place the butt of the m4 against something that doesnt move. Fire it. It cycles. No inertia required. It uses the same principles of operation as an HK416. Gas enters the gas block from the barrel. Dual short stroke pistons are driven against the carrier. The carrier is knocked back, unlocking the bolt and pushing the BCG assy. to the rear while extracting the hull and ejecting it. The action spring in the recoil tube then drives the assembly back home as the shell lifter feeds another round.
@sabre675
Watch this video starting @5:43 seconds in. There is no inertial mechanism in the bolt carrier assist the rearward movement of the bolt carrier if the gas pistons are removed. M4 operates on the same mechanical principal as all of the rotating bolt short stroke gas systems including the HK416 the AR180 and Dragunov rifles.
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