How Has The VP9 Fared In Large Agency Police/MIL Testing?

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

We've all seen less than stellar reports of problems with VP9, I can think of a few off the top of my head....

Firing Pin Drops on Impact to Butt of Pistol (no discharge)
Water in Firing Pin Channel Causing Failures
Very Sensitive To Environmental Contamination


Is there anybody here who can share first hand knowledge of what has been found in large scale testing? It seems there should be more of these in duty holsters if there were not problems, considering H&K designs for LE/MIL exclusively and doesn't consider civilians their main focus.

[MasterBlaster]

Characterizing "reports of problems with VP9 [sic]" as being "less than stellar" implies that such reports are weak and without merit, and that the VP9 is problem-free. But I'm assuming you mean the opposite. Can you provide references for these reports you speak of? Are we talking about objective evidence or Jimbob's YouTube video where he dumps the gun in a bucket of mud and tries to fire it?

[JHC]

There was a PF member who reported his department adopting it back when it was the rage and the final boss Glock killer.

[Archer1440]

The SFP9-M beat the Glock 17(3rd place in trials) and the Beretta APX (2nd place in trials) in Japan’s trials to replace their long-in-the-tooth Minebea P9 (licensed Made in Japan copies of the SIG P220) for their Self-Defense Forces Special Forces unit.

The SFP9-M is identical to the VP9 non-optic models sold in the USA (exact same trigger system, trigger weight, paddle mag release) but with special internal and external coatings for long-term saltwater exposure.

In particular, the proof marks and serial numbers are blacked out, due to the extra coating. The left side of the slide also bears an engraved anchor and trident. And, there are more cocking serrations on the slide (5 front and 9 rear vs 4 front and 5 rear on VP9). They also have the “stepped” charging supports found on some VP9 models.

Notably, the striker spring washers (cups) for this model are the same part number as the current production VP9’s sold in the USA. (260489)

In addition, at least 2000 standard specification SFP9 pistols were delivered to and used by various Japanese police agencies for security at the Tokyo Olympic Games.

I would say that speaks well for the platform.

[KevH]

H&K hasn't been competitive in the US law enforcement market in a couple decades instead going after large Federal government contracts. They don't even make an attempt to compete in municipal and state agencies.

Most municipal and state agencies don't "torture test" pistols like everyone on the internet seems to think. Usually, it has much more to do with relationships and pricing.

Glock dominates the market because of the support they offer from A to Z with the product (T&E, competitive pricing, trade-in, training classes, quick and responsive on-going support, low-cost upgrade, proactive aftermarket support, etc.). Smith & Wesson is right behind them with SIG probably coming in third. FN is working at entering the market, but the product is not nearly as easy to deal with. Walther on a very small scale is working to enter the market, but I don't have high hopes for their success.

Most municipal PD's don't care about "elements" testing (mud, saltwater, sand) as much as they care about safety, serviceability, shoot-ability (can our folks pass a qual), longevity and support over the lifetime of the product.

If a guy falls into a canal or swimming pool (rare, but I've dealt with this on multiple occasions) I care that:

1) The pistol will work briefly for the time it is needed.
2) I can clean it back into service rapidly.

It also matters when some dummy detail strips their gun at home over the weekend and shows up at the PD with a ziplock bag full of parts (happens more often than you would think).

Glocks take seconds to completely detail strip and re-assemble and only requires a 3/32 punch (or a Bic pen in a pinch...been there, done that). Easy peasy.

The 2.0 S&W M&P is right behind it and the SIG P320 is right behind that (the P365 is much more complicated). Both require a punch and a hammer.

The FN 509 requires a jig or press to fully detail strip without damaging it and uses one-use roll pins (no thanks). I haven't stripped a Walther yet, but I imagine it's more complex than the M&P.

I picked up a H&K VP9 OR last August and ran it in a class for weekend with about 800 rounds fired. From the box to the class I just added a little lube. Not one malfunction. My sample of one shoots just fine and I haven't had time to go through an armorers' class yet or detail strip it so I can't tell you what it looks like internally (but knowing H&K it's probably more complex than a Glock of S&W). My impression of the gun was just "Meh...." It does nothing better than a Gen5 Glock or M&P 2.0 does, costs quite a bit more, and lacks aftermarket support (holsters).

So there you go...

[Brianjkeene]

H&K hasn't been competitive in the US law enforcement market in a couple decades instead going after large Federal government contracts. They don't even make an attempt to compete in municipal and state agencies.

Most municipal and state agencies don't "torture test" pistols like everyone on the internet seems to think. Usually, it has much more to do with relationships and pricing.

Glock dominates the market because of the support they offer from A to Z with the product (T&E, competitive pricing, trade-in, training classes, quick and responsive on-going support, low-cost upgrade, proactive aftermarket support, etc.). Smith & Wesson is right behind them with SIG probably coming in third. FN is working at entering the market, but the product is not nearly as easy to deal with. Walther on a very small scale is working to enter the market, but I don't have high hopes for their success.

Most municipal PD's don't care about "elements" testing (mud, saltwater, sand) as much as they care about safety, serviceability, shoot-ability (can our folks pass a qual), longevity and support over the lifetime of the product.

If a guy falls into a canal or swimming pool (rare, but I've dealt with this on multiple occasions) I care that:

1) The pistol will work briefly for the time it is needed.
2) I can clean it back into service rapidly.

It also matters when some dummy detail strips their gun at hope over the weekend and shows up at the PD with a ziplock bag full of parts (happens more often than you would think)

Glocks take seconds to completely detail strip and re-assemble and only requires a 3/32 punch (or a Bic pen in a pinch...been there, done that). Easy peasy.

The 2.0 S&W M&P is right behind it and the SIG P320 is right behind that (the P365 is much more complicated). Both require a punch and a hammer.

The FN 509 requires a jig or press to fully detail strip without damaging it and uses one use roll pins (no thanks). I haven't stripped a Walther yet, but I imagine it's more complex than the M&P.

I picked up a H&K VP9 OR last August and ran it in a class for weekend with about 800 rounds fired. From the box to the class I just added a little lube. Not one malfunction. My sample of one shoots just fine and I haven't had time to go through an armorers' class yet or detail strip it so I can't tell you what it looks like internally (but knowing H&K it's probably more complex than a Glock of S&W). My impression of the gun was just "Meh...." It does nothing better than a Gen5 Glock or M&P 2.0 does, costs quite a bit more, and lacks aftermarket support (holsters).

So there you go...

The Walther is easier than the M2.0 / by a decent margin in my opinion. I’ve settled on PDPs and M2.0s for my striker guns and I am blown away by the trigger group on the PDP. It’s simpler, fewer in parts, and easier to work in than the M2.0.

[KevH]

The Walther is easier than the M2.0 / by a decent margin in my opinion. I’ve settled on PDPs and M2.0s for my striker guns and I am blown away by the trigger group on the PDP. It’s simpler, fewer in parts, and easier to work in than the M2.0.

That's good to hear, but I'm not super optimistic about them being a major player in the US LE market. They started off strong with the influencer crowd when the PDP came out and they may have a decent product, but the list of agencies that have adopted them is very minimal, almost all local to their company and they've already had to suspend their IOP program.

FN did well getting LAPD's contract (they sold the guns for under $200 a unit beating the two brands they were competing with on price), but I think it will be a fairly short lived relationship.

I could be wrong though.

[Archer1440]

Glock dominates the market because of the support they offer from A to Z with the product

Also, strippers. You left out strippers.

[TGS]

Maybe @Luger has information he can share? I believe he's part of a law enforcement agency of over 30,000 officers that uses the VP9.

[Polecat]

HK needs to just update and tweek the Glock design, swallow their pride, and do what Shadow Systems did! I for one would love an HK styled and gone over, revised and tweeked gun. They could offer it in L,C, SC. They would likely use metal mags, allowing for a mor trim design.